1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2 isp - 2 routers

Discussion in 'Networking Issues' started by scpost, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    [​IMG]
    I am trying to use Port Forward from Router 2 to Server 1 ( see red line). I am unable to get this to work from the outside (www)

    I have tried forwarding to
    192.168.1.5 (fails page cannot be displayed although it is there!)
    192.168.1.1 (brings up the router 1 interface)
    192.168.1.13 (works as intended)

    OTHER DETAILS:
    On router 2, I am fowarding Port 80
    - Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.13 WORKS
    - Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.5 FAILS

    From Server 2 I can:
    See the Server 1 in explorer(internal network)
    I can pull up the internal website on server 2

    The reasons behind doing this are long and drawn out but if you can help I would appreciate it.
     
  2. Sbelew

    Sbelew Network Guru Member

    I have a setup similar to yours, my reason is for file and printer sharing across routers. My reason for multiple routers is for different WAN IP's for online gaming. Try moving the cable on router 1 from the uplink port to a LAN port. I did no port forwarding or other special configurations other than jumping the routers from LAN port to LAN port.
     
  3. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    I have tried that before (and just now) and the 2 routers become completly seperate. I am unable to file share ect . . .
     
  4. mark55

    mark55 Guest

    hmm

    Here are the solutions that might work (from my experience completing CCNA class)-

    Simpilest would be just to add another network card to one of your servers and run a cable inbetween them.

    If you have two wireless routers then using the wireless connection to connect them with DDWRT or other WDS firmwares.

    Try putting the DMZ from router2 (which needs to connect to server1 and router1) to the IP of your server on router1.

    Use 2 USB wireless network adapters (if the routers are not wireless compatable) to make a client to client wireless network and share services/files that way

    It might be a broadcast thing, so try using different subnets so as to get different broadcast IPs for each router.

    The only other thing I could think of that could be mussing with your connections would be conflicting DHCP servers, which would mean turning off your DHCP server on one router (I dont believe that this would work with my limited knowledge of your situation) or straight out routing bugs. Be sure to upgrade your firmware on both routers to the latest DD-WRT as BrainSlayer has stomped out most of those bugs.

    Simpilest thing to try and to try first is mussing with the cables- if you have a spare NIC (network card) plop that into server1 and set up through software. Good luck!
     
  5. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    Well, lets see if we can get this figured out for you. I will asume that the static IP's you have listed are outside of your DHCP scope and that that is not the issue. Although you didn't mention what services you were running on each server, I have a sneaking suspision you are running a bunch of web servers. HTTP uses port 80 incoming. If you have Linksys #2 forwarding port 80 trafic to 192.168.1.13 then you can't forward port 80 trafic to 192.168.5. You will have to be running a different service on that server, or changre the port that you are using for your http traffic. You can setup redundant ISP's to your server one. and for ward port 80 requests from both isps to it. DO NOT use the DMZ feature in any Linksys firmware. It opens your server wide up to the internet. Looks like you have a nice system coming together. What you really want to be doing is ditching the linksys boxes, and putting your two IPS connections together with Bandwidth Agregation. Hot swap redundancy is gay. You need bandwith agregation load balancing. Do a google on that. You not only get double the bandwidth, but full redundancy as well.

    HopE iwas some help. If you have any questions just post back.
     
  6. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    MORE DETAILS:
    I am using Port 80 Web Server
    Server 2 is to be discarded in the future and is only a backup

    On router 2, I am fowarding Port 80
    - Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.13 WORKS
    - Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.5 FAILS

    NO DHCP is running, all IPs are static

    I want to use the avial. equip I have withou buying a dual wan, for now!

    Server 1 Hosts several site via reading the HTTP HEADER to determine the proper site. I want some sites to enter through ISP2 and the rest through ISP 1 due to the very limited bandwidth. Eventually, Web Server 2 will be back up and running.
     
  7. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    OK. I see.... well you can't forward a port to two different IP addresses. So thats why you are having trouble. You will have to forward port 80 on router 1 to one IP, and forward port 80 on router 2 to your second server. Then put the site you want hosted through ISP 1 on one server, and then put the other site on the other server. If you want to put duplicate sites on some servers, you just need to tell DNS to send traffic for one domain to one router, and send traffic to another domain to both routers. You can set a metric or round robin scenario with DNS to send 30% of the requests for a certain domain to one routers external ip, and 70% to the other.
     
  8. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    "well you can't forward a port to two different IP addresses."

    I am only trying 1 at a time on router 2. I am using server 2 for testing purposes. I am only trying to Port Forawrd to Server 1 on router 2.

    OR
    Are you saying you can not use 2 routers/gateways that are using Port Forward 80?
     
  9. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    OK, so just setup router 2 to forward port 80 to 192.168.1.5 andset up router 1 to forward port 80 to 192.168.1.5. Get rid of all your port forwarding rules for 192.168.1.13. Then any HTTP traffic comming in fro either ISP will go to 192.168.1.5 (server 1).

    Now, you might need two nics in server 1 so that you can have traffic comming in from router 1 come in one nic, and set the DNS and default gateway settings to correspond with ISP 1, and a second nic for router 2 and set the DNS and default gateway settings to corespond with ISP 2.

    So you might have two ip addresses on server one, but as long as you set them static, they should function fine. They should even be able to be on the same subnet.

    I have never actually done what you are suggesting, but I have a lot of experience with routing traffic through networks.
     
  10. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    OK, so just setup router 2 to forward port 80 to 192.168.1.5 andset up router 1 to forward port 80 to 192.168.1.5. Get rid of all your port forwarding rules for 192.168.1.13. Then any HTTP traffic comming in fro either ISP will go to 192.168.1.5 (server 1).
    OK this is where it is not working but you think it should?
    Now, you might need two nics in server 1 so that you can have traffic comming in from router 1 come in one nic, and set the DNS and default gateway settings to correspond with ISP 1, and a second nic for router 2 and set the DNS and default gateway settings to corespond with ISP 2.
    This is not set up but I follow what you are saying. Is there anyway to set up this without a network card? I really do not want to screw up R1 - > Server 1 as this is a online production box.
    Now, you might need
    So you might have two ip addresses on server one, but as long as you set them static, they should function fine. They should even be able to be on the same subnet.

    I have never actually done what you are suggesting, but I have a lot of experience with routing traffic through networks.
    One followup question: When a www user 1 hits the website via Router1, its path has to go back out through router 1. And the same with www user 2 through router 2, he must go back out router 2. If true, how does the server know which way to travel? This may be what is messed up.

    Thanks for all the info
     
  11. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    Hmm. Thinking about this more, I believe you will need a true router between your two ISP Connection leading into your internal network. You can only have one default gateway, so disregard my last idea. You will need an extra pc. Then load a server or routing operating system of your choice. Windows Server, Linux, custom routing /firewall solution. You will need to feed both your ISP connections into it. Either using the linksys or not. Then it would have 3 nics in it. 2 for your ISPs and one for your internal network. Set the two external ISP nics to forward packets to server one, and server one will reply to the router, which would be its default gateway. The NAT in the router will keep track of which connection the request came in on, and route it back to the source.
     
  12. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    If you hit the command line heavy, then linksys box will allow you to set two ports as wan ports and with some very creative routing tables, you can accomplish what you are asking with the linksys. You will have to do some heavy customizations, and Open WRT might be a better choice. But I have read posts on others getting a WRT to use dual WAN.
     
  13. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    Well . . . I really appreciate the input. I will need to give this some more thought.

    I do not paying for a Dual Wan but my concerns are that it will not work.

    1- I understand that a Dual Wan is only useful for outbound traffic.
    2- Inbound traffic (Website users) will only leave the ISP it entered in. If the ISP goes down and the DNS is pointing to that Static IP, I will be down!
    3-Stability. I have been happy/lucky with my old cheapie Linksys Router as far as being stable, Same with my DSL connection. Cable, is unstable but much faster. A trade off I guess.

    My goal was to use both ISPs and if the Cable goes out (for a long period of time) I can swicth the DNS to serve through my DSL. Down 24 hours tops for DNS change, waiting on Cable Repair, who knows.

    STABILITY IS MY MAIN GOAL. I do not want to use a DNS service nor try to do the RBG method.

    Soulutions:
    1. I guess I could leave what I have alone or manually change the cables if I lose one ISP. Of course I would love to be able to seperate my bandwidth leaving my money making sites on the faster connection.
    2. G_Styles solution which is likely out of my expertise :eek:
    3. See about a Dual Wan router.

    Any thoughts
     
  14. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    Hi G_styles.
    I had someone in another state this:

    ***************************************

    make the network a "B class" (255.255.0.0), change one router to 192.168.0.1
    and the other 192.198.1.1 the port forward away....happy routing

    *******************************************

    What do u think about this? Is it a waste of time trying? OR no matter what I do the Web Server will not work due the its configuation limits. :sadbye:
    Thanks
     
  15. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    Since both routers are gateways to the net they only know whats connected to itself. R2 does not know where Webserver 1 is (only its address) if a router doesn't know when to look it goes to its default router ie the internet connection.

    can you enable/edit any routing tables? or set the routers avanced tables? in linksys gear you have Advanced routing. setting the Dynamic Routing to RIP1 or RIP2 on both routers should allow the routers to know each others clients, or at east where to contact them
     
  16. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    With The current setup I am able to see all the computers in the network from any single PC. e.g. I can ping and file share and can see the gateways interface. What I can not do is Port Forward. Thats why I am wondering if it is some configuation to do with the Web Server itself not knowing what to do with multile gateways.

    Thank for any help
     
  17. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    problem is you cannot have 2 port forward to 2 servers using the same ports in the same IP range.

    try a test.

    set one webserver on port 80 and one on 81

    now port forward to the correct ip addresses.

    ie

    port 80 to 192.168.1.5

    port 81 to 192.168.13

    see if this works. the only problem maybe is the uplink port.
     
  18. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    btw from any client on R1 can they access Web Server 1 ok?
     
  19. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    "any client on R1 can they access Web Server 1 ok"
    -----------------------------------------
    Yes, this has been in production for years. R2 is the newer setup
    ------------------------------
    "problem is you cannot have 2 port forward to 2 servers using the same ports in the same IP range."
    ------------------------------------------------
    I am only port forwarding to 1 server (Server 1), server 2 is only a testing server.

    On router 2
    - Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.13 (server 1) WORKS

    Change router 2
    - to Forward Port 80 to 192.168.1.5 Web Server FAILS, but I still can see the complete network internally (ping, file share, ect . . .)
    --------------------------------------------

    try a test.
    set one webserver on port 80 and one on 81
    now port forward to the correct ip addresses.
    ie
    port 80 to 192.168.1.5
    port 81 to 192.168.13

    From ISP 2 and router 2
    port 81 to 192.168.13 -> WORKS
    port 80 to 192.168.1.5 - >FAILS


    Thanks
     
  20. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    this actually is a typo it should be 192.168.1.13

    do me a favour try using a LAN to LAN connection between R1 and R2 and not the UPLINK/LAN connection. OR the UPlink on R2 to a LAN on R1. just a thought but you have to try different setups.
     
  21. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    Yes that would be a far better option.

    the RV082 springs to mind.
     
  22. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    OK I See now Admin.

    The problem server will work with on OR the other routers by changing the server's TCP/IP settings.

    If I change the settings on the problem server 1 (192.168.1.5)

    So the original TCP/IP setting was:
    FROM
    192.168.1.1
    192.168.1.5

    and change TO
    192.168.1.2
    192.168.1.5

    So the server settings are what is messing me up. Now I need to get where both Routers will work.

    What are the solutions?
    Should I put another NIC in the server? On Windows 2000 running ISS

    I would think a Dual Wan router is not going to solve this issue?

    Thanks for all the tips
     
  23. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    A Dual Wan router however would do away with the r2 router.

    what woud another NIC on the server do?

    All your servers and PC are on the same 192.168.1.x range. are they ALL using 255.255.255.0 subnet?

    I dont understand what you are doing here however:

    so you moved the web server 1 to the R2 lan connection?
     
  24. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    so you moved the web server 1 to the R2 lan connection?
    =====================================

    No I left the cat5 hooked up to R1, I just changed the Webserver 1 configuration.
    From the Web Server ->Rt. Click Network Connections -> TCP/IP - >
    ->properties -> Change the default gateway and alternate DNS to 192.168.1.2 which was 192.168.1.1.

    This allows wan connections through R2 but through R1.
    Change back, and vise versa.
     
  25. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    ah ok.
     
  26. G_Styles

    G_Styles Network Guru Member

    The problem with your setup, is that you have 2 default gateways on your subnet. You can't do that. The other problem is that you can only forward port 80 from the WAN side to a single internal address. There is no way with your existing configuration that you can accomplish your goal. If you have money making web servers, and you are looking for redundant Lan hookup, the cheapest and easiest way is to buy a Sonic Wall TZ 170 for $500 and consider it a business expense. It will do bandwidth agregation, and redundant load failover to two ISP's. You will have to dump one of your web servers, but you will have redundant failover ISP connections that load balance the bandwdth.

    You can get sickeningly involved with customizing your WRT with iptables and routing rules, but to make it work half decent is hard.

    There might be a free linux distribution that will do bandwidth agregation, but I don't know of one off the top of my head. All the free ones that do that make you pay for the good features like that.
     
  27. Aopen

    Aopen Network Guru Member

    I would think that the limitation of gateway in windows would be your problem, if the win boks get router 1 as gateway i do not think that if router one´s inet connection is down then your win box will not know of the other routers inet connection since its gateway is set to router 1 :p If you set the alternativ gateway to router 2 it will only work if router 1 is totaly down. But it is an hopeless setting anyway you will need an dual wan capable router.

    It migth help with rip or something like that but the best solution would be if there was possible to set one lan port on a router as an extra wan port. This would have to be made an firmware with this feature if even possible.

    I might be on a goose track here but....
     
  28. DocLarge

    DocLarge Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Man,

    it was exhausting reading this post :D

    What OS are you using for your webserver? Microsoft IIS in 2000/2003 server allows you to use the "same NIC" to host "multiple web pages (I've done this before, but it's been a while). From what I just read, the root issue is you just want to access your webserver. Why not just go through software and just put both pages on the same server for now until you get a Dual WAN routing solution?

    Granted, if you don't have an OS that supports this feature, you're still looking at cost.

    Just my two cents...

    Doc
     
  29. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Network Guru Member

    SCPost did you solve this yet?

    Your port fowarding isn't the issue...I see that you're only port fowarding 80 to one LAN IP at a time on each router.

    Uplinking isn't an issue...you have it correct..where you use the uplink port on one...to a LAN port on another. This would be treated just like you would 2x little 5 port switches.

    I replied to your post at dslrep to flip the gateway on the TCP properties of your webserver...to be the LAN IP of router 2..did you try that yet?
     
  30. scpost

    scpost LI Guru Member

    YeOldeStonecat,
    Yes, when I change the Default Gateway to Router 2 and it worked. So the problem is the Web Server not having the correct Default Gateway set.

    I know you can set multiple gateways on Web Server 1 but I am unsure what it will do. I do not want Web Server 1 to have problems since it is a production box.

    I do not care about port forwarding to Webserver 2, this is only a test, internal server.


    My goal is to have Webserver 1 accept web request from R1 or R2 and respond to the proper ISP request. Webserver 2 is ONLY for setting this up, it will be discarded. It appears that the networking is correct, it is IIS that I now have the issue with.
     

Share This Page