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I'm willing to pony up $50 for a WRT6XXN for the Tomato dev.

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by badboyndsu, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. badboyndsu

    badboyndsu Network Guru Member

    I'm willing to pony up $50 by PayPal for a WRT6XXN for the Tomato dev. Anyone else willing to put their money up to get Tomato running on an 802.11N Gigabit Linksys router?

    Considering the WRT300N has been out for close to two years now, it's frustrating to see a lack of Tomato running on these faster routers.
     
  2. spliff

    spliff LI Guru Member

    I'm in for $10.
     
  3. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I'd be in for $25.
     
  4. roadkill

    roadkill Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    v1 or v2??
     
  5. sm00thArsenal

    sm00thArsenal Network Guru Member

    I would certainly love to be able to upgrade to a Gigabit 802.11n router, but there is no way i would do it without Tomato given the crap firmware Linksys, Netgear, et al put out. So i can see contributing to some sort of fund for this. However, do we know for certain that it is possible to create a custom firmware for these new routers (i assume currently we'd be hoping to get it going on the WRT610N)?
     
  6. amgraham

    amgraham Addicted to LI Member

    32MB, Gigabit, Wireless N routers with tomato? You could rule the world! :)
    Or at least it'd be pretty sweet.
     
  7. stud.beefpile

    stud.beefpile Addicted to LI Member

    I'd vote for the WRT600N v1.1. . .

    I have to keep mine downstream of my Asus WL-500G with Tomato on it. . .I can't trust it to act as anything other than an access point with the most current Linksys firmware.

    Even then, I still have to reboot it about once a month. I have the 2.4 GHz radio on it turned off and it only serves two laptops in my house.
     
  8. stud.beefpile

    stud.beefpile Addicted to LI Member

    I'm in for $25. . .
     
  9. Partizan

    Partizan Network Guru Member

    Stop teasing me guys. I'm considering of upgrading to 1Gigabit (I already have gigabit cables around the house). I'm just waiting for Tomato. I can donate 10€ via paypal.
     
  10. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    Soooooo, does anyone want to e-mail the developer and ask if he's willing to do this?
     
  11. jersully

    jersully LI Guru Member

    I don't think Roadkill is the developer you're referring to, but he's pretty darned good!

     
  12. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    No, I'm referring to Jon, the official Tomato developer.
     
  13. roadkill

    roadkill Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    WRT610N and WRT300 v1 are very much compatible so it's a really minor thing..
    only drivers are needed...
    and I think support for WRT300N is planned since I saw some hists on it in the source code..
     
  14. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    "only drivers are needed..." ... this is the key .. since drivers are binary .. no way to work as Tomato implemented ... :rolleyes: ... and Linux 2.4.20 ...
     
  15. roadkill

    roadkill Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    N draft drivers are only available as binary so far..
     
  16. craftyguy

    craftyguy Addicted to LI Member

    I know this is an old thread, but I (regrettably) upgraded to a WRT310N, thinking I'd give DD-WRT a shot, and I miss Tomato more than ever!

    I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is to help the developers on adding WRT3XX and WRT6XX support in Tomato.
     
  17. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I'm still willing to put some money on the table for this, too.
     
  18. humba

    humba Network Guru Member

    I'd have upgraded to a WRT610N a long time ago if Tomato ran with it.. put my down for a 50, too (of course for that I'd expect both wlans to work and the ability to use multiple ssids on the same radio).
     
  19. mikester

    mikester Network Guru Member

    why not just keep your existing router for the WAN connection and buy a gigabit switch?

    its not like you have a gigabit internet connection...

    works great for me!
     
  20. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    For the record, did anyone ever heard any confirmation, or even a single reply of acknowledgment from developers about this?
     
  21. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    That's what I've already done by adding a D-Link 802.11n router with integrated gigabit switch as merely a managed switch and 802.11n access point for my LAN. However, I'd like to consolidate, and judging by the ridiculous D-Link firmware, I'll never give up my Tomato!
     
  22. humba

    humba Network Guru Member

    I have 20 Gbit ports with PoE so no issue here either.. I even at one time had a managed gigabit switch before the router for sniffing purposes.
    Having the entire thing all in one is also only a partial reason - I suppose the main reason comes from better throughput due to a faster CPU, as well as more space (e.g. to combine some of the mods). According to the numbers I've seen here, Tomato won't be able to handle a 50mbit line (which is the highest speed I could get right now) - and other cable providers have announced 100mbit for later this year so the days when the trusted old WRT54GL was enough are definitely numbered.
     
  23. stud.beefpile

    stud.beefpile Addicted to LI Member

    Digital TV streaming wirelessly, anyone?

    I have an HD Home Run (HDHR), and I have to say that when I was using the WRT600N downstream of my WL-500gP v1 with Tomato on it to stream digital TV wirelessly, there was no stuttering, no chirping, just smooth TV (for hours on end - at least until the WRT600N decided to lock up).

    With the 802.11g of the WL-500gP, TV watching on the HDHR has to be limited to low-res (640x480 streams), and even then, there is stuttering, blocking, and black-outs (even with an amp and a high gain antenna inside my house). In strictly a web, email, IM, and general use capacity, 802.11g is just fine, however, if you're looking to use your wireless for some higher bandwidth functions (large file transfers, HDTV streaming, video teleconferencing, etc.), 802.11g just won't cut it.

    The reliability and ease of use of Tomato is what I'd most like to see brought to the table with the WRT6xxN series (WRT600N in my case). Speed, USB, and the dual radio capability is implied with the WRT6xxN series, and would also be a huge added benefit. The Linksys firmware is kind of a proof-of-concept, and functions as long as you don't push it, but isn't the set-it and forget-it solution Tomato is.

    I'd love to have a single router instead of the clump of gigabit switch, WL-500gP, amp, antenna, power bricks, and extension cables I make use of now.
     
  24. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

  25. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    bump, anyone else interested in N router support?
     
  26. GhaladReam

    GhaladReam Network Guru Member

    Yes, but we all know that DD-WRT needs to go on a diet and exercise more to become leaner. That and it needs to learn not to crash & burn. :)
     
  27. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Is there general hatred of dd-wrt for tomato users? I'm not trolling or starting any flames, but curious of the negative feelings towards it. Does it spill from the fact previous versions of dd-wrt were far from stable and that stigma carries on till today?

    dd-wrt v24 has been stable all these while on my N routers and the lack of "dietary" size is due to the fact that dd-wrt do support extended functions like usb / vpn, etc.
     
  28. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I don't think there's necessarily a hatred of DD-WRT among Tomato users, it's just that DD-WRT's firmware is so different in contrast to the ethos of the lean Tomato firmware, and there seems to be no end in sight; DD-WRT just continues to get more and more features, but the stability never seems to approach Tomato's, nor do they seem willing to really improve their QOS, which is one of the most glaring weaknesses compared to Tomato.

    This is coming from a long-time DD-WRT user before coming to Tomato.
     
  29. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    I was just trying to point out the fact that if DD-WRT could get the N wifi working, then there must be open source drivers for the new N wifi chipsets out there.
     
  30. baldrickturnip

    baldrickturnip LI Guru Member

  31. belliash

    belliash Addicted to LI Member

    I can work on new firmware for WRT600N with my friend ;)
    there is just one problem - we dont have hardware to work on it.

    If You need more information about us, please let me know. I will answer to any Your question...
     
  32. humba

    humba Network Guru Member

    personally, I've flashed more than a half dozen routers with Tomato and never had any issues, and my first dd-wrt flash bricked the router, and the second attempt got me seriously slow router (first official v24 release).
    Besides a bad AMD Shuttle XPC flash (they're known for having issues), the WRT54GL was the only device I ever bricked and that's going to leave a permanent bad feeling.

    And good QoS is a must for me since I gave up the landline 3 years ago.

    And I don't get the point of having N routers with 100mbit ports.. the net transfer rate of an N network is above 100mbit (at least in MIMO mode) - gigabit has been the standard on all newer PCs for several years so I don't really understand why there still are new routers that only do 100mbit. Most routers today, gigabit or not, could transfer more than 100mbit so saving 2 bucks on manufacturing really doesn't make much sense - those are my thoughts about the WRT160NL and similar devices limited to 100mbit.
     
  33. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Its kinda hard to benchmark a "bad" firmware design by initial flashes. I've had my own bad share of experience with OpenWRT too. Using the same argument undoubtedly be unfair to Tomato when someone came along and flashed 1.24 and had lot's of problems with it.

    You might notice that this thread is asking for support of N router with gigabit port. Many other people using N routers are using the gigabit version, including those heavily discussed in the dd-wrt forums.

    As you've pointed out, almost all new PCs come with gigabit ports and likewise for all NAS. My local Internet connection is 100Mbps. WRT54GL WAN-to-LAN speed is very much less than 100Mbps. In all these situations, even if we exclude wireless N support, gigabit router support is much desired.
     
  34. tzobor

    tzobor Addicted to LI Member

    hey, is anyone actually donating money? I've recently donated 15$ to the Tomato developer and I'm willing to contribute to getting Tomato to the draftN/gigabit devices, but I need to know I'm not the only one.
    I actually have a Edimax BR-6574N which is very similar to the Linksys WRT160N (v. 2) and would love to see it running Tomato, but actually any version would do.

    Best regards,
    Tzobor
     
  35. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I donated money about a month into using Tomato, however, I'd be willing to donate again if it meant 802.11n/gigabit support.
     
  36. virgocrush

    virgocrush Addicted to LI Member

    I would love to see a new version of Tomato for new routers. I'm interested in donating money into this project, but this thread has been on/off active since Sept. 2008! Lets start turning the wheels to make this happen! Let's have something by the end of this year...

    Who will be the DEV.Test for this new project?
    Which router and how many?
    How much funds so far?
     
  37. belliash

    belliash Addicted to LI Member

    Is tomato dev going to support that router?
    I just dont work on firmware as there are a lot of them for WRT54GL (the only one i have), but for WRT600N there does not seem to be many...

    Just depend on ppl here if they are wwilling 3rd party person to work on it and if they can trust...
     
  38. luckman212

    luckman212 LI Guru Member

    a couple of years ago I bought Jon (the developer) a brand new WZR-300N router out of my pocket to try to get Tomato running on it. Cost me $131 and after many months, nothing ever came of it. So, hopefully eventually there will be a compatible N-router working with Tomato.
     
  39. belliash

    belliash Addicted to LI Member

    Yes, its hard to maintain operating system, especially for router when it has to launch on few different models... Making group of few ppl that would work on 1 router model can speed this up a little... especially when they are neightbours...

    If you have dilema i can answer to every question and tell about us... but actually there werent any questions... so i guess You are not interested in..

    EOT?
     
  40. ng12345

    ng12345 LI Guru Member

    maybe a stupid question;

    how is dd-wrt able to support 802.11n but tomato is not?

    does dd-wrt just package in the binary drivers without optimizing them for their specific firmware? if so, can't tomato do the same (i.e. include a compiled set of drivers within the firmware)?

    in lay terms, can't i include a closed-source 802.11n driver file in the firmware that tomato references everytime it is trying to utilize that radio?
     
  41. njeske

    njeske Network Guru Member

    in the case of DD-WRT and WRT610N, the DD-WRT devs were able to get sourcecode from Linksys for the wireless drivers. I'm not sure why Linksys doesn't make them publicly available, but apparently they'll hand them out if you ask.
     
  42. Kibe

    Kibe LI Guru Member

    I donate money to Jon for the great job on Tomato and would def donate more if I could use a WRT610N with Tomato inside!
     
  43. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    This needs a bump.
     
  44. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    I think you're better off with dd-wrt if you need gigabit and wifi N
     
  45. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    No, DD-WRT is crap. I'm better off using stock firmware over dd-wrt.
     
  46. Assman

    Assman Addicted to LI Member

    Wouldn't say it's completely crap but generally yes. I ran dd-wrt on a few different routers for a long time. Tried out many builds, btw, they release them like crazy every 5-7 days. dd-wrt doesn't have the durability of tomato. My main issue with the dd-wrt was that after some heavy downloading, 10-20gb+, router would become extremely slow and a restart was needed. With tomato, I haven't accessed the gui for so long I forgot the password.

    Back to the topic. It would be extremely nice to see N support. :):thumbup::cool:
     
  47. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Sounds kinda unfortunate though. I ran dd-wrt on 310N for gigabit support and wifi N and it has been rock solid on the stable builds for months, despite the unfortunate experience you shared here. I don't have any religious beliefs with regards to firmwares, only practical needs for 100mbps WAN link, gigabit support for NAS and wifi N coz all clients are wifi N now.

    The crazy releases are just active development gone into the firmware for community tests. One doesn't need to go crazy flashing every releases, just use the stable one. Even with one new release in tomato since I tried it was a fail-release, v1.24 that screwed up all my wireless client.
     
  48. gawd0wns

    gawd0wns LI Guru Member

    Wouldn't it be a good idea to wait until 802.11n is fully ratified? It is still in its draft stages... According to a few news sources, the final ratification will be sometime in September - November.
     
  49. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Draft wireless N has been available for years, along with gigabit routers. Local internet connection is 100Mbps, and every system I have can run on 802.11n and they have gigabit ethernet port. Routers supporting these are like $100 or less, like spare accessories that you can replace in a year or two.

    It could be good planning to "wait" for ratification that was delayed due to squabbling or you could be just a consumer and use what's available and enjoy what's already available. :thumbup:
     
  50. murphm4n

    murphm4n Network Guru Member

    let's have a tomato-gigabit+802.11n-athon

    Maybe one of the admins can start a sticky post collecting names / pledge amounts (for gig + n)... I'm in for $20..
     
  51. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I donated to the Tomato author about a day after I first installed it; it was such a breath of fresh air compared with DD-WRT.

    Yes, I'd be in for another $20 to get it working on an 802.11n/gigabit router.
     
  52. sigqual

    sigqual Guest

    gigabit swith with 802.11g radio?

    I suspect the biggest issue is getting stable driver source for draft-n radio chipsets. Even though draft-n may be ratified in the not-too-distant future, making the radios work as desired has proven to be very difficult. It wouldn't surprise me if general interoperability of these radios takes years, and stable drivers with public source even longer. The gigabit switch functions, on the other hand, are now mainstream and not so closely guarded. I would personally find a Tomato version that supports gigabit switch hardware, but operates the radio as 802.11g, to be a significant improvement with at least a potential upgrade path. How do others feel?
     
  53. humba

    humba Network Guru Member

    The N certification has been going on for what, two years now? So I doubt interoperability is much of an issue at this point.. and draft 2.0 is close to the final version that's going to be approved as soon as next month.

    I think by now there are more N routers without gigabit than are G routers with it - at least in the consumer space.
     
  54. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    bump

    Also guys, linksys has posted the source code for all their N routers including the 600N and 610N here: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/gpl

    This is where the DD-WRT team is getting their drivers from. How hard is it to insert the new drivers into tomato? :confused:

    Can someone with experience in this forum do it? Since Jon doesn't seem to be interested even with so much bounty :(
     
  55. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    i love tomato, but my ISP is about to upgrade to 120mbps and my two old WRT54GS's just won't be up to the job any more so i'm looking at upgrading to a WRT610n and a gigbit switch to replace them.

    like a lot of people I'd like to be able to stick with tomato as I've had bad experiences with dd-wrt in the past and don't agree with the way they have been running things on the project in the past (and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone there), although as i've steered clear of it since if found thibor and then tomato after that l have no idea how things are now.

    i've previously donated a WRT54G and a paypal donation to the thibor project and i'd be happy to chip in $50 for tomato to help with getting WRT610n support off the ground if someone was willing and able to get it up and running?

    if the original tomato dev's don't want to work on it, is it possible for some of the tomato modders to get together and have a go?
     
  56. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    The Tomato GUI is proprietary to Jon Zarate.

    Probably the best way to encourage any developer to continue with his work is to donate a router for him to work with. But maybe he simply doesn't have the time...
     
  57. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    there's plenty of modded tomato builds out there already, i don't see why this should be any different?

    surely it's just a matter (not belittling the work that would be involved, i know it's a lot of work) of adding features to the stock firmware, same as any other mod as far as I can see?

    i know i'm oversimplifying it, but would the process of including gb ethernet ad wireless N support be any different to any other mods, aside from some extra work?

    surely it would be within the abilities of a few of the tomato modders out there if they put their heads together?

    even if jon isn't interested in the project himself, would he actually stand in the way of others looking to make tomato better?
     
  58. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Assuming that Jon isn't already heading that way himself (and there have been some signs in the source code that he might be) then it would probably need to be a collaborative effort by several developers. It isn't just a case of inserting the wireless driver - that's been done already.

    It would be useful for anyone who is knowledgeable about Tomato to put together a list of things that would need to be done. After that it might be possible to decide if there is sufficient resources/developers/knowledge etc. to do it. It would also show those of us who are not particularly technical (non-programmers) why it isn't the small change it appears at first sight, and therefore hasn't been done already.

    My personal wish is for Tomato to be developed so it will run on the more serious routers that will soon be required to handle the 100Mbps plus speeds that are becoming available. Serious processors are needed running at higher clock speeds, and memory of the order of 256MB. I think all of the kiddy routers we are used to will become hopelessly inadequate pretty quickly now. Demand will bring down the price. For example, the ASUS RT-N16 with 533Mhz CPU and 128MB RAM. "Support up to 300,000 sessions" :biggrin:

    http://wl500g.info/showthread.php?t=19629&highlight=RT-N16

    http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/4716_4717_4718-PB03-R.pdf
     
  59. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

  60. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    True! But you see why I'm not at all excited by the WRT610N ? It may be draft N but it's still not much of an advance over the centuries-old WRT54....
     
  61. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    someone just needs to figure out how to do hardware mods to increase the speed of the cpu, add more ram and change the wireless and ethernet ports on the good old black and blue WRT54G's and we can all just stick to using ultra powerful verisons of the router we all know and love. :)

    they managed to do it with the old xbox. you can buy a "dreambox" which is an old xbox1 but with an upgraded 1.3ghz cpu (from the 733mhz one) and 128mb ram instead of the 64mb in the original. it's enough to give the xbox (with xbmc installed) enough grunt to decode 720p video, but unfortunately it's prohibitively expensive compared to the alternatives out there for HD video playback.

    now where's my soldering iron? :)
     
  62. klootspiraal

    klootspiraal Guest

    WAN to LAN of the WRT610N is 150 mbit, enough for current and upcoming docsis3/vdsl2/fiber connections. I doubt Tomato will be made available for that router though, there haven't even been official updates for the older routers for months :rolleyes:.
     
  63. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    Very far from other router with Ubicom (DIR655 / TRENDnet TEW633Gr) reaching 231 Mbps & Jumbo frames at cheaper price ... Simply I'll invest efforts in better and more performance hardware.

    Source: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30308/96/1/2/

    Regards
     
  64. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    I have a DIR-655, and it's firmware and user interface is crap. I'd rather have my cake and eat it, too: good firmware/user interface AND good hardware.
     
  65. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30308/96/1/2/[/url] for some info on the TEW633

    As you can see, there's nothing particularly interesting about the Linksys except for the flashy box. I am thinking more of a more radical step forward to faster processors (much faster) and more memory, the small amount currently fitted is inadequate for reliable operation. Personally, I don't want a "cheap" router - I want a reliable, working router that doesn't crash or reboot. And we all know that manufacturer's own firmware is usually pretty terrible. User's expectations have now increased to the point where they really need something approaching what used to be called an "enterprize" level router.

    Looking at the present situation, Tomato is still built on top of the old Linksys/Broadcom firmware based on Linux 2.4 obsolete kernel with all of its problems. DD-WRT changed some time ago to use Open-WRT as a base. Both are able to support many models and platforms. IPKG allows you to change things and add features. NVRAM is no longer there *** CORRECTION ... NVRAM variables are no longer used in OpenWRT, *** - configuration files are used instead. Most new routers are now using Linux 2.6.

    All of this means that it is both more difficult and somewhat pointless to make any upgrades to Tomato which by definition will be limited to a few (almost obsolete) platforms. You can see that modders are frustrated by the limitations of the present hardware and the kernel.

    The answer is of course to forget the legacy Linksys core, go along the Open-WRT route (using it as a base instead of the linksys/broadcom firmware) and add the functionality of the Tomato GUI. And just as important, to add or reproduce the functionality of the QOS system, which is still streets ahead of anyone else.

    It would allow a future upgrade path to many different platforms and the newer routers that are hitting/about to hit the market. Once that is achieved, a whole new situation exists, becauses people will be able to relatively easily add new features or packages. Jon's vision and design of Tomato was brilliant, and this path would allow it to continue and be upgradeable for years to come.
     
  66. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    Erm...unless I'm painfully mistaken, DD-WRT uses _nothing_ from OpenWRT and is still highly dependent on NVRAM variables. All you said is absolutely true of OpenWRT proper, however.

    Rodney
     
  67. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Is that right? I am going by this:

    "The Linux kernel part is based on the OpenWrt kernel, which started as Linksys-based firmware but was later changed to its own build framework. All of the firmware is based on Linux, as are OpenWrt and Alchemy."

    and this:

    "Brainslayer is working hard to merge the code base of DD-WRT with the OpenWRT firmware. This means that, for the most part, OpenWRT's package management system, ipkg, is available for DD-WRT. This allows for an easy way to add features not already in the DD-WRT firmware. "

    Perhaps I am wrong in that the kernel was used but they did not go the whole route. And of course, they still use NVRAM variables. Therefore, I stand corrected!

    Addit: There is an interesting history of the third-party firmwares here: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6735/1/
     
  68. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    Yes, I believe they "borrowed" the OpenWRT kernel (2.4 only, I believe, though I may be wrong about that) and they definitely lifted ipkg (which was a huge win for DD-WRT because BrainSlayer can then just concentrate on core). I just didn't want anyone to get the impression that DD-WRT is just OpenWRT "reskinned". =)

    Rodney
     
  69. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    Does Jon know that the GPL code for the new routers are available? A few months ago they weren't and that was the reason why there hasn't been any development.

    What is the hold up now?
     
  70. Kris404

    Kris404 LI Guru Member

    I would gladly donate $50 for WRT600N/WRT610N support.
     
  71. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Good luck in getting Jon to comment or even reply/acknowledge about this matter ;)
     
  72. nate123

    nate123 Addicted to LI Member

  73. larsrya8

    larsrya8 LI Guru Member

  74. alexlau

    alexlau LI Guru Member

    I heard the speed increased to 600Mbs in the Final? and hopefully DD-WRT, OpenWRT, Tomato would embrace the final version....
     
  75. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    either way i like it, that's a pretty sweet spec. :)

    my isp will be moving to 120mbps by the middle of next year, so fingers crossed *something* works by then.

    would hate to have to leave my tomato based routers behind. :(
     
  76. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    Why leave Tomato behind?

    Disable wireless in Tomato, connect the N router to one of the 100mbit ports and use it as an AP. Done. :)

    Rodney
     
  77. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    That's crippling the Internet connection. Routers that run Tomato has LAN-to-WAN speed of about 50mbps or less. Internet WAN speed and wireless speed has moved on, Tomato development has not.
     
  78. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    I realize this, but without gigabit on the desktop, the additional processing capability of a N-based router is largely wasted unless you have a large number of devices needing high bandwidth simultaneously (and I have yet to read hard numbers on how much total internal bandwith a N-based router can drive - I would expect it would still drop out under 200mbps).

    Rodney
     
  79. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    Gigabit interface does come standard with all current systems now and that's what I have in my entire home. They are matched with a gigabit NAS and a 100Mbps Internet connection. Tomato capable router is unfortunately a cripple and a show stopper in such environments. I can confirm that speed difference were very very obvious, both local file copying and Internet connection (wired and wireless) when comparing WRT54GL with WRT610N and DIR-655.
     
  80. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    ditto. i'm going to have 120mbps broadband in the next 6 months or so so it seemed like a sensible time to upgrade my whole network.

    when that happens i intend to be using gb ethernet throughout the house and wireless N for everything that can manage it.

    at that stage, having any router on the network with wireless G, 100mbps ethernet, OR a 50mbps WAN port is going to be a bottleneck.
     
  81. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    Then you can forget b/g platform ... cause Tomato is the most efficient WAN-LAN throughput firmware now, despite you might have problem also with WRT610N WAN-LAN throughput, only Ubiquiti and Atheros 7/9 chipset demonstrated till now to be comfortable in these bandwidth.
     
  82. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    It is a great pity that for the majority of us users around the world, B/G is still adequate. Our ISP's now heavily promoting the incredible high speeds of - wait for it - 8 Mbps, believing this to be the cutting edge. And they are failing to deliver even that speed. I wired all our buildings for gigabit LAN, but I don't expect us to use it for another 5 years yet :eek: It is even extremely hard to find a gigabit switch in the shops and the prices for a simple switch are ridiculous.

    Talking of N routers being the new standard, I recommend that anyone thinking of going that way will avoid using 2.4GHz. I was in a part of town last month that has a few dozen such N routers being promoted in an IT shopping mall. Most of them were unuseable because of the interference caused by them all competing for the same channel space. Worse, they completely stomped on the G routers. A guy in an internet (gaming) shop in the same building complained bitterly about his regular B/G laptop users had all left and gone elsewhere.

    The only routers that were really useable were a couple on 5GHz, not many people have hardware to use it though.

    I was imagining if we changed all our AP's in this building and the 4 other local ones within a hundred meters, to use N all on 2.4GHz. That would be something like 100 routers all on the same or maybe a couple of channels. I think we would end up with something less useable than we have now :biggrin:


    There are exactly three non-overlapping 2.4GHz (802.11b/g) channels. Select 1, 6, or 11. Since pretty much all consumer or SOHO APs come out of the box on 6, I'd suggest 1 or 11. If you have a way to detect neighboring APs, look at what's around you. (I recommend you try InSSIDer on your PC). And don't use 5 or 7. Adjacent channel interference impacts throughput far more than distant channel interference. If you're on channel 1 and your neighbor is on channel 2, you're eroding each other's throughput by about 80%. If you were both on channel 1, you wouldn't exceed about 50% on average.


    EDIT - I just found this:

    and

    full articles
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=247
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=555&tag=rbxccnbzd1
     
  83. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    You might also forget the environment where everything is already on GigE interface, including the cheapest home user NAS. Wireless and WAN speed aside, a gigabit router makes a lot more sense here. The "workaround" solution is of course stack a gigbit switch while retaining an obsolete router.

    Unfortunately, this part of the world is 100Mbps WAN speed reality (it is real, not marketing) and gigabit LAN is the norm.
     
  84. murphm4n

    murphm4n Network Guru Member

    so.. can we keep bumping this thread? ;)
    anyone got a calculator to work out how much a gig+n version of tomato is worth (voluntary contributions of course - all in the spirit of gpl..)
     
  85. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Well, not sure what the ultimate aim of this thread is, because it's quite probable that Jon Zarate doesn't read it :biggrin:
     
  86. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    it is a thread of dream, hope and faith! :biggrin:
     
  87. Engineer

    Engineer Network Guru Member

    Looks like DD-WRT was BETA released for WRT320N today and from the thread, the WRT610N might be next in line. Using kernel 2.6.

    http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=58566

    Edit: I know this is a Tomato forum, just thought it was interesting nonetheless.
     
  88. Dudeman456

    Dudeman456 LI Guru Member

    I just wanted to note that, this idea might have just gotten easier to produce. FON has just released a FONERA router with N, BitTorrent, and NAS support. My thought was seeing as FON has traditionally used OpenWRT, perhaps this might assist Tomato.
     
  89. HKPolice

    HKPolice LI Guru Member

    There's at least $500 worth of donations for Wifi N router support.
     
  90. belliash

    belliash Addicted to LI Member

    It will be hard to port Tomato to WRT600N, even for Jon, to be honest... However there is a chance of getting completely new firmware for WRT600N that could be a nice replacement for tomato ;) If You would be interested in that, please let me know and i'll try to describe everything.
     
  91. gingernut

    gingernut LI Guru Member

    Please tell.
    I think alot of people would be interested.
     
  92. TVTV

    TVTV LI Guru Member

    Cisco schould sponsor Jon to port Tomato to the new N series, because Tomato, DD-WRT and Thibor (etc.) were the major selling points of the 54 series.
     
  93. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    that's a good point, but the other side of that is how would you feel if you made the linksys hardware/software and a bunch of people came along and totally re-wrote your code because it was carp?

    i know that at the end of the day they probably appreciate the hardware sales, but the idea that some guy in his shed is able to write better firmware than a bunch of guys in the company that makes the hardware (who probably had a good hand in it's design too) might well leave a bitter taste in their mouths.
     
  94. TVTV

    TVTV LI Guru Member

    Don't really think so. Why? Because the guys at Cisco/Linksys don't really give their all to write fantastic software for their low end routers. All of their efforts go into their premium products.
    As for the "Cisco sponsor Jon" thing, i was thinking of something more "under the radar", if you get my drift. ;)
     
  95. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    is Jon even here reading?
     
  96. TVTV

    TVTV LI Guru Member

    No, AFAIK. :)
     
  97. phuque99

    phuque99 LI Guru Member

    so the question is what's the point of this super long thread of people posting like developer is listening to suggestion and offers of donation? :confused:
     
  98. vibe666

    vibe666 Network Guru Member

    wishful thinking. :)

    maybe some day someone clever will read it and make the firmware we all want. ;)
     
  99. TVTV

    TVTV LI Guru Member

    Well, there are people here which keep in touch with Jon. Maybe some day one of them will tell'im about what's going on here and he'll take a looksie.
     
  100. FattysGoneWild

    FattysGoneWild LI Guru Member

    Not sure why he does not post in this forum. This is by far the most active forum for Tomato firmware on the internet.
     

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