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Leaching neighbor’s WiFi with wrt54gs dd-wrt?????

Discussion in 'DD-WRT Firmware' started by SuperchargedRS, Jan 4, 2006.

  1. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    How can I turn my recently flashed (dd-wrt) wrt54gs; into a range extender?? I am new to this stuff so if someone could walk me through this thing???

    Help me save 40 bucks a month lol;
    -SuperchargedRS

    :D
     
  2. Pistolero

    Pistolero Network Guru Member

    Good luck with that

    Yeah... everybody is rushing to help you at once to steal bandwidth paid for with someone else's hard-earned money.

    Wireless will be too slow for a connoisseur such as yourself.. try wired! Make a holey hole somewhere in your neighbor's house and run a cable from your puter to his cable modem. While you are at it, drink all his beer and impregnate his cat.

    Hope this helps!
     
  3. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    Well the wired thing sounds good but I am running low on my mason drill bits lol! Anywho Neighbor is an ass anyway, so what setting do I need on my unit?


    Sorry for any dugly dorights I offended, but if you want something that will really put your panties in a knot, look at how much money the govt takes out of your income checks, look at how you get charged sales tax every time you buy a car (one car can be sold a infinite amount of times), and best of all look at the war that you as a tax payer are paying for.......SO what I am trying to do is really nothing.

    Also the speed dif won’t be that bad; heck what connection do you think I am using to type this? :cheering:
    I am using a linksys range extender (which I would continue to use except I am going to encase the wgs in a electric box w/ a couple of high gain omni's, and the little range extender POS does not accommodate the antennas, not to mention the unit itself is cheap in quality)

    So what do I need to do on the router so I can use it as a range extender type of function????


    Thanks
     
  4. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    First thing you need, is to find a forum somewhere, where people care about your little neighbor feud enough in order to conspire publicly with you in what is most likely a criminal act.

    Good luck with that.
     
  5. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    Didn't know I was posting in the upright citizens brigade... Anywho I was joking about the neighbor thing, but it worked; look how many people posted when I pushed one of your taboos lol


    Anyway this is the situation:
    I have my house where I have a WRT54G v.4 (OEM linksys OS)hooked up to my Road Runner cable modem, now when I go to my pool or the guest house (more like a shack , where play music w/ my friends at) I have no signal. I am going to mount the WRT54GS running DD-WRT (newest version v23 or 24 I think) on the roof of the shack so I can get my signal all over the property (and if I had a neighbor that wanted to use it I wouldn’t mind, hell time Warner changes me enough that someone else should be using it too lol).


    .......So what settings do I need on my DD-WRT to get the range extending function I am seeking?

    Thanks
     
  6. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    You need better antenna if you want more range. I don't know why people think there is some magic they can do in software that makes a radio work better. A good antenna will "hear" weak/distant signals better. The ducky antenna that come with the unit are cheap junk. Shop at hyperlinktech.com or pacwireless or someplace for good outdoor antenna. Since you are mounting a router in a box on the roof you will have to run power to it. At that point you might as well run ethernet too, then you don't have to have it "repeat" anything you just set it up as another Access Point unit.

    Most ISP have Terms of Service Agreement that you signed up for, about using the service only at that address. If you share with another address most ISP's consider it a violation and abrupt cancellation of your service is probably the minimum action.
     
  7. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    As the saying in the movie goes "what we have here is falure to communicate" lol.

    I am going to be putting two omni on the exterior mounted flashed box (these will be on the top of the roof of the shack), they are high gain and about 5ft tall, they will mount of ether side of a pipe leaving a clear line of sight to the entire property. The OEM unit in the main house has the 7db omnis on it (but due to where it is located and looks reasons it will stay that way).

    My question stands; how do I get my flashed DD-WRT unit with the five footers to work in "range extender mode"??????

    Thanks,
     
  8. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    Why would you want 2 omni antenna on an exterior mounted AP? One good-quality one is superior. The reason for 2 is for indoor multipath reflection issues. Not applicable in outdoor mounting.

    If you are going to mount it outside you have to run power to it. You can just run ethernet cable as well and don't have to do any "repeater" or "range extender mode". If you insist, then search for "WDS" or Wireless Distribution System. You'll lose half your bandwidth with a single-radio repeater setup though.

    Yes, there is a failure to communicate. On your part so far.

    [edit] 2 high-gain omnis mounted parallel within 1-2 inches of each other strike me as a BAD idea the more I think about it. What is a 5-foot like about 15 dBi. You'd need a real RF engineer but I wouldn't recommend this setup. I've done quite a lot of outdoor mountings for a community WiFi network, and the standard config is *1* antenna, not 2.
     
  9. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    Run a cable????? uhh you dont know where I live, I have a main house and a shack on 10 acers out in the So Cal Desert, I am not running cable, I did something like that once and it didnt turn out. I will figure out the antenna (I am using a set up like the ones on Seattle wireless), but before I worry about the antennas I need the unit to work as a Range Extender? And Power is no concern I have flood lights on the front of the house (Like I said it's not your standard issue place lol)

    Does anyone know how to do this; and by this I mean HOW DO I SET THE DD-WRT TO BE A RANGE EXTENDER?

    Thanks to whom ever answers the question! :rockon:
     
  10. purephase

    purephase Network Guru Member

    This is not possible without the assistance of the original AP owner. You're talking about WDS and for that you need to re-configure your neighbours' AP (and it hasn't to be compatible with it) and, if you do that (no password set on the router etc.), then you're not just stealing a signal, you're tampering with someone else's property.

    Yeah, and as vincentfox said, you'll immediately lose half the signal upon re-transmission so all this extra cash, with so little bang, is just silly. Get your own provider.
     
  11. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    Helps to read the whole string?

    Anywho what if I set it to client bridge, or something, I mean this has a crap load of settings; and your tewlling me it cant just act as a repeater?, I just need it to repeat the signal of the other router hooked to my modem.
     
  12. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    I think you missed the part where I mentioned WDS.

    You can search the forums for it faster than you can sit around waiting for someone to spoon-feed you another variant of "how do I setup WDS?"
     
  13. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    But WDS is not a repeater right? I searched and didnt get a topic that really covered what I was looking for and I searched with "how-to setup WDS"?
    Is WDS a repeater; from what I under stand I have to re-configure the other router, that means it is not a repeater!


    How to I set this thing up as a repeater? :eek:
     
  14. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    Poor baby :sad: , another spoonful or 2 for ya:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System

    And this page is a bit dated but gets the basics across:

    http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7

    Of course you have to make reciprocal config changes on both routers, you can't run WDS unless the AP units agree on the bridge being in effect. I am not aware of any sort of WiFi "repeater" setup where you can get away with only configuring one unit. Traffic has to go back the other way, this is not AM radio. The base unit must have some configuration changes made to recognize that traffic from a WDS peer is treated differently than just a regular client device.
     
  15. ConverseNation

    ConverseNation Network Guru Member

    The Right Way, The Wrong Way and the Cheap Way...

    My Assessment of this thread is limited...

    Data location is the POP location.
    WRT54GS #1 set up as an AP

    Client Location is (the Shack)
    WRT54GS #2 Set up with WDS

    Seems to be an odd way to do it...

    My Recommendation is the following...
    POP Location
    WRT54GS #1 Port 1 to WAP11 #1 with Directional Antenna

    Client Location
    WAP11 #2 port to 3rd WAP11

    My assumptions are these:
    Single Data Source, Cover Maximum Area, connect to remote area, and again cover maximum area. Assume Firmware Flash to provide certain functions.

    **Note** Single Omni for WRT54GS and WAP11 #3, Directionals for distance WAP11 #1 and #2 in Bridged Sequence.

    Kevin
    FreeFiForFun
     
  16. whatsthedeal

    whatsthedeal Network Guru Member

    here is a suggestion...

    i think you can set up the "extender" in client mode so that it connects to the primary wireless network and doesn't half your bandwidth. i could be wrong on this so wait for someone to confirm it.

    another thing, the wired idea is a good one. i think there is more miscommunication here and so i'll draw a picture of what i think the others were suggesting.

    Legend: === is wired connection, )))))((((( is wireless connection

    [modem]==[inside router]==[roof WRT54G]=||huge antennas|| ))))((((( everywhere else

    i think this is what the op was thinking:

    [modem]==[inside router] ))(( [roof WRT54G]=||huge antennas|| ))))((((( everywhere else

    i may just be as confused everyone else though...
     
  17. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    That's ExACTLY what I am talking about!! So what settings do I use on the DD-WRT to use it as a extender, I know it has a client and client bridge setting?

    THANKS!
     
  18. whatsthedeal

    whatsthedeal Network Guru Member

    what kind of router is your inside router? if it's capable of running ddwrt, you could run WDS mode. If it's not, you'll need to put it into client mode if you're trying to do the second scenario that I listed above. If you can do the first scenario that I listed, you could put it into AP mode and use it without having routing problems or losing half of your bandwidth. I suggest the first scenario if possible.

    So to recap,
    First scenario: AP mode, routers wired together

    Second scenario (Method 1): MUST have both routers running DDWRT, both routers in AP mode, use WDS as connection mode. Problem - lose half of your bandwidth.

    Second scenario (Method 2): DDWRT router in client mode. Problem - will have to do routing between 2 different networks if you want the computers to communicate.
     
  19. tommurphy73

    tommurphy73 Network Guru Member

    THere is a quick and easy way to set up woreless bridging using the GUI on DDWRT v23.

    See the attached link


    Go to the Wireless settings tab --> basic settings and set the mode to Client bridged. Go to the status --> Wireless tab. Do a site survey and see if you can see your AP. If you can see the ap then click on the join button. Close the survey window and go back to the Status--> wireless tab and click on refresh. The link to the AP should now be visible. You can only connect to the WRT in clinet bridge mode through the ethernet ports and not using the wireless on your laptop as the WRT is not longer operating as an AP.

    Note: This should not be used to connect to an AP without the owners permission.


    Regards
     
  20. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    So in client-bridged all this thing does is act as a AP?; it takes a signal in from the air and relays it to the wire?,
    so to make it work like one of these: (http://www.pricescan.com/items/item159776.asp) it has to me in client mode?

    The only thing that seems odd to me is that people go to the great effort of making a OS for these things, yet don;t have a setting to get this thing to work as a STAND ALONE repeater? I mean it seems like a common enough use for anyone that is savy enough to flash linux onto their box? Unless I am missing something? (which I hope I am lol)

    -SuperchargedRS
     
  21. tommurphy73

    tommurphy73 Network Guru Member

    You could connect the client WRT54 which is in client-bridge mode (Connected to a remote AP wirelessy) to another WRT54G which is in AP mode using the lan ports. You could then be able to connect to the WRT54G using any number of PCs with standard wireless cards.

    Regards
     
  22. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    I think I already covered that WDS lets it act as a standalone repeater. I even gave you a link to the WikiPedia definition, and another to a primitive HowTo.

    Perhaps you should invite someone over to your place and invite them to do this work for you. You don't seem to be getting it.
     
  23. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    It's like the old saying "how long does it take to do a ten minute job".

    I get it, but you guys arnt explaning things (or rather some of you) all that well.
    So this DD-WRT can not act as a stand alone repeater (as in nothing is hooked to it, as in nothing else has to be re-flashed)?

    If so that seems kinda odd, that all this effort is put into making these OSs for these things, websites are made (such as this one) and all this effort is involved but no one said"...hmm maybe someone might want to extend there wifi signal", I mean Linksys even makes a micky mouse cheap little thing that does just that (and before someone says "well uhhh why dont you just go get that) as I said it is a POS (I bough one and returned it). I just cant believe that there is no way to make this thing repeat a signal!

    Is there some other firm ware I can use to get it to comply? (it is a WRT54GS v.4)? I mean this is fricking nuts!



    *oh yea, vincentfox, if you dont have anything helpful contribute to this thread go back to what ever it is you do....I mean is this the only place you feel you have power, talking down to people you dont even know on some obsecure website, I mean I am just trying to get my rig done so I can surf the web and such at my house, calm down. Also if you are
    "not aware of any sort of WiFi "repeater" setup where you can get away with only configuring one unit"

    perhaps YOU SHOULD invite someone to YOUR house to help you learn to read; may I sugguest you start with this:

    " I am using a linksys range extender (which I would continue to use except I am going to encase the wgs in a electric box w/ a couple of high gain omni's, and the little range extender POS does not accommodate the antennas, not to mention the unit itself is cheap in quality) "

    --------->http://www.pricescan.com/items/item159776.asp

    ..SO I need the DD-WRT (or any firmware that will work on my WRT54GS v.4) to merely function as the linksys unit in the URL does.

    Thanks,
    -SuperchargedRS
     
  24. whatsthedeal

    whatsthedeal Network Guru Member

    hello again,

    first I want to say that all of these custom firmwares (DDWRT, hyperwrt) are godsends. They let us do things with $60 boxes that we would usually have to pay 10 times more for - so don't disrespect. these authors deserve a huge pat on the back for their time and support that they essentially donate to this community.

    second, you're not getting the answer you want for 2 reasons:
    1) your initial question was for help in doing something that would piss all of us off: how to steal a wifi signal
    and 2) perhaps your problem doesn't have a solution because you don't have the right hardware or setup.

    These firmwares can't make magic boxes that can do anything you want them to - they have limitations just like everything else. You've asked how to "simply repeat a signal" but to be honest, there is no simple way. You've been provided with possible solution techniques (I gave you 2 - someone else gave you another) and I don't even see that you've tried them. Networking isn't extremely difficult but it's not easy either. You have to work at it - try things and find what works. When you get stuck, that's what these forums are for - not for guides (which is what the wikis are for).

    So here's what I recommend:
    -try the methods and ideas that have been provided with you.
    -ask questions along the way.
    -understand that these boxes have limitations.
    -be nice to people on the forums (even if they're being rude, they don't have to help you).
    -don't disrespect the authors and/or their firmwares.

    -whatsthedeal
     
  25. 4EverGreen

    4EverGreen Network Guru Member

    I agree 100% with whatsthedeal ! :thumb:

    Furthermore, I think his text should be made available as important information at the top of each forum for all visitors, as this kind of disrespectful atitudes is becoming more and more frequent ... :thumbdown:
     
  26. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    I think we already answered quite a few times, that a WRT using DD-WRT firmware *DOES* in fact support stand-alone repeater mode. It's called WDS. Go back and read the posts in this thread again. It's quite clearly stated several times.

    I linked a Guide to WDS from this website complete with screenshots. What more do you want? Want me to drive down there from NorCal and hold your hand?

    Let me make it explicit for you, you will HAVE to do some configuration settings changes on EACH of the 2 units. Is this the part you are not understanding? I assume that if these are both your routers, on your property, that you have passwords and access to change the settings you need. This is because to act as a repeater, the main node has to realize it's going to be talking to a repeater. You want to know how difficult this is? Takes about 2 minutes. Set both to same channel, SSID, and encryption. Gather the WLAN MAC addresses for the 2 units. Go to the WDS config page on each router and tell it the address of it's partner. That's all.

    Or do you NOT in fact have control of the main router? Are you making all this SoCal "desert ranch" thing up because you really ARE trying to steal WiFi from the neighbor and you don't have the password to get into their router?

    I'm trying to be helpful, for FREE, and getting dissed all the while. Why do I bother? Good question.

    Also, thanks for asking, but as technical lead for a community WISP I am *VERY* familiar with how the WDS (aka "repeater" mode) works. You simply cannot do this job with just "plug in the unit out of box", it doesn't work. God knows Linksys and others have tried, and gotten burned with bad rep on products like the WRE units. TCP/IP networking is complex and self-configuring network devices are not going to solve all possible problems. There are some things you just can't put a "make it work" button on. I could use one on my Toyota. The URL you linked was just some page about where to buy a WRE54G unit which I thought you already said didn't work for you?
     
  27. NateHoy

    NateHoy Network Guru Member

    SuperchargedRS -

    This is not a software limitation you are trying to overcome, it's a hardware limitation.

    The WRT54G / WRT54GS / WRT54GL series are equipped with only one radio. A repeater needs two radios. One to receive the signal, and one to rebroadcast that signal.

    So, to get two radios, you have to buy two routers and wire them together with a simple patch cable, and have one of them steal the signal from your neighbor and another to rebroadcast it to you. With one radio, you can attach to an access point *OR* you can BE an access point, not both at the same time.

    Check your local laws and the Terms of Service of your local ISP's. You could get your neighbor into trouble with his ISP, and depending on local laws you could get in trouble, too. Just a word to the wise.

    EDIT: WDS as vincentfox descibes works because the two routers are aware that each other exist, and treat signals from each other differently than they would treat signals from a client. In order to do a repeater of that type with a single radio transmitter on each node, both nodes need to be aware of each other so they can differentiate client signals from peer node signals.

    A TRUE repeater repeats everything it hears, which requires two radios. A WDS router repeats client signal to its peers, and peer signal to clients, and can keep a connection in place on the same channel for all of this communication because it knows what to forward to whom.

    So, if you want to share Internet with your neighbor, become friends, offer him $10 a month or so to make the mods to his router (or to put a more powerful antenna on his router so it can reach you without messing with WDS), and share it openly (assuming his ISP allows subletting).
     
  28. SuperchargedRS

    SuperchargedRS Network Guru Member

    THANKS, that makes sense; that's all I was looking for. I guess I will go on ebay get a old AP and hook it up to the DD-WRT port, and put them both in the weather-proof box.

    *I dont mean to be rude, I post on a few places (mostly about cars), however if someone wants to talk down to me for asking a question I will not take any disrespect; it is a complment if someone asks you for help (or at least that is how I feel when someone asks me for help), you can help or not, that is your choice and that I can respect; how ever there is no reason to talk down to someone in that way. So that is that. My question answered and I thank you for it (mostly NateHoy & whatsthedeal)... however I thank vincentfox for the link; I still think he needs a life away from the glow of a online bulletin board screen, as I do not think he will reaffirm himself, or find the authority or whatever he is looking for here.
    Thanks,
    -SuperchargedRS
     
  29. vincentfox

    vincentfox Network Guru Member

    Previous posters are talking about a "true" dual-radio repeater, which is what most people prefer to build given the resources. What most people actually *USE* because it's cheaper if technically inferior, is usually a single-radio "half-assed" repeater. It's what WDS was originally designed around, a single-radio setup. It does work, I am using several single-radio WDS repeater nodes right now.

    You could have just said "thanks!", instead of taking the extra time for another swipe at me.
     

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