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Random Reboots

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by tstrike2000, May 2, 2007.

  1. tstrike2000

    tstrike2000 Network Guru Member

    I'm running the latest version of Tomato on a WRT54GL. NVRAM was cleared and settings were keyed in manually. The only things extra configured are Dnsmasq conf, QoS for VoIP, and unchecked Tracking/NAT Helpers and Inbound Layer 7 in the Conntrack/Netfilter settings.

    I've noticed a couple of times where my router was up for a few days or even a week and then all of a sudden I noticed that it must have restarted because the uptime has been up for less than a day. I've looked at the logs and didn't notice anything abnormal. The internet connection still works, but the router seems to reboot every once in a while. We were using wireless, but the connection never went down. It seem to have rebooted about the time we were shutting down the wireless. Afterburner was disabled but Frameburst was enabled. Not sure if that matters.

    I was just curious if anyone's run into a similar issue.
  2. soganta

    soganta Network Guru Member

    I’m noticing the same behavior, it randomly reboots after several days of uptime. Sometimes it reboots after a few days, sometimes a few weeks, but I never managed to trace what caused it. I tried setting up a remote syslog server and also got it to reboot when it was logging but nothing appeared. Using a WRT54GL and cleared NVRAM several times.
  3. venk25

    venk25 Network Guru Member

    Same issue here

    I'm seeing the same issue too. For that matter, I was using OpenWrt for a long time and saw the same behavior with it also. I and few other have started a few threads in OpenWrt forums and the issue has been discussed. From what I can see, it looks like an issue with the Broadcom wl drivers. And, I guess Tomato too is using one of those problem-version (is it that I see in the log ? Its close to what OpenWrt 0.9 uses).

    A few OpenWrt users have had success using newer version of wl drivers. I'm not sure what version official Linksys firmwares use.

    So, Jon, if we could request you to kindly migrate to new version of driver, it might save us a ton !

    Thanks for the excellent firmware Jon.

    OpenWrt threads that talk about this:
    The eternal kernel panic => reboot problem
    Unofficial firmware with newer driver
    More threads could be found by doing a search there.
  4. noyp

    noyp LI Guru Member

    yup, i got this issue also on my WRT54GL, after an uptime of 1 or 2 days maximum, it suddenly turns back to an hourly uptime which means it rebooted.
    i thought it was just an electricity problem
  5. heyya

    heyya LI Guru Member

    Finally! A thread where I share the same problem with others. I've tried Tomato and DD-WRT to try and sustain long uptimes like others that say they get 20 or 40 days uptime. But all I have managed are 1, 2, 3, or 4 days then uptime starts over meaning a reboot occurred.

    I agree that it has to be a problem with the wireless wl driver. My friend and I have the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with Tomato 1.07. Mine rebooted every few days and his did not. The only difference was I connect to my router wirelessly and he has 2 wired PCs. He had 10+ days uptime until I brought over my laptop and connected to his router. It did not reboot immediately when I connected. About 5-10 minutes later, his uptime restarted.

    Any possible fixes???
  6. dontbotherme

    dontbotherme Network Guru Member

    Just wanted to let you guys know.

    I had my max connections set at 4096, and it started reset at about 10+ days.

    Once I set the max back to the default 2048, my uptime is currently about 24 days.

    Give it a try.
  7. venk25

    venk25 Network Guru Member

    Well, I have it at 2048. Don't think I changed it recently - so I guess I had the reboot issue with 2048 too.

    Anyways, will remove my cron job that reboots the router every morning at 3 AM and see how much of uptime I get.
  8. venk25

    venk25 Network Guru Member

    Just to let folks know I had the reboot issue when I removed my cron job. (max connections at 2048). I reinstated my cron job and my router reboots at 3 AM everyday.
  9. yaqui

    yaqui LI Guru Member

    I notice the problem when there is storms/ power outages in the area... you sure it is not that?

    Try a UPS and see if the problem goes away. ;)
  10. dontbotherme

    dontbotherme Network Guru Member

    I read over those OpenWRT threads.

    I've switched over to DD-WRT V24 Beta and my uptime is pretty stable.

    V24 uses newer wireless drivers from Broadcom, I think that has fixed the rebooting problem.

    Tomato would reboot every 1 or 2 days for me. I've done all the reseting possible, clearing NVRAM, reseting to defaults, 30 sec reset (router on and off) etc.

    I think it's certain wireless clients that cause the router to become unstable, since many are having no problems with Tomato.
  11. dontbotherme

    dontbotherme Network Guru Member

    What wireless adapter do you have?
  12. lwf-

    lwf- Network Guru Member

    I didn’t have this problem before, but now I do. Must have be a bug introduced in 1.07 or some other version, because I didn’t have this problem before. Now it restarts completely random, sometimes after one or a few days, this time it took more than 15 but now when I checked the computer it had lost signal and, just as I thought, the router had not been up for more than 20 minutes. Actually, I don’t think it has ever happened while I was using a connected computer and I had stopped my bittorrent transfers a few hours before the reboot after running it for nearly all the time these 15 days, and most of the restarts seem to have accrued during the night. It’s like it restarts when it’s not used. Coincidence? I don’t know, haven’t tested very well, still seems pretty random.
  13. dontbotherme

    dontbotherme Network Guru Member

    Currently using DD-wrt V24, it's been up for 25 days

    I can confirm it has something to do with the broadcom wireless drivers.
  14. acidmelt

    acidmelt LI Guru Member

    A possible workaround

    Hey, a possible workaround for this "random" reboot problem is to restart the driver periodically, say every 24 hours. So far my router is up for the longest time it ever has after I applied this workaround, I'm not entirely sure that the workaround is responsible for this but before my router used to reboot every 2-8 days and now its at its 20th day of uninterrupted uptime.

    Note: I'm currently using 1.07 although 1.09 is out and 1.09 is updated with the latest binaries from the newest linksys firmware, however as far as I know the wireless driver has not been modified but who knows maybe some other updated binary solves this, Also I'd be happy to hear from someone that used to suffer from this problem and updated to 1.09 if the firmware solved or didnt solve this problem.

    Here's what I did:

    Create the following script in a persistent place (I used jffs):
    #this script restarts the wl driver
    #this is done in order to fix random reboots
    #of the router due to (supposedly) instability of the driver
    wl down
    wl restart
    wl up
    echo "** wl driver restarted **"
    I called the file "wl_periodic_restart". Don't forget to make the script executable:

    chmod +x wl_periodic_restart
    Next thing youll have to do is to create a cron job to run the script periodically, I chose to run it at 4am:

    cru a wlrestart "0 4 * * * /jffs/wl_periodic_restart"
    If the workaround works for you, you should create the cron job in your Init script.

    Thats it, I hope that helps.. if you do try it please report back on your results.
  15. AlpineMan

    AlpineMan Network Guru Member

    I thought I was the only one experiencing this random reboot on my WRT54GL. I was using DD-WRT v2.3 SP2...reboots randomly. I tried Tomato 1.06, but it would not stay connected in WDS (I think I know why now...quick fix is to set NTP to sync every hour...sorta like a keep-alive). Thinking that it might be the hardware, I swapped it with my mom's Buffalo WHR-G54S.

    So for those using the latest Tomato or DD-WRT firmware, is it still rebooting?

    I now have 3 Buffalo WHR-G54S in WDS. They were at Tomato 1.06 up until a week ago. Great uptimes...90+ days...only resets when I manually rebooted. I've since upgraded to 1.09...hopefully my luck with uptimes continue. I did notice the other day those that one of the Buffalo's uptime reset...not sure if it's because it lost power or a random reboot.
  16. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    I'm using 1.09.
    I just checked and it rebooted about 4 hours shy of two days.:frown:
    I checked the logs, and it appears it happened as my wife was connecting with our laptop...

    EDIT--I have a WRT54GL
  17. AlpineMan

    AlpineMan Network Guru Member

    Damn...I hope I don't have to go back to 1.06. I'm using a few new features already in 1.09. Which router do you have?
  18. u3gyxap

    u3gyxap Network Guru Member

    What kind of wireless device does your laptop have? Is it Intel 2100/2200 by any chance?
  19. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    Fixing Random Reboots under Tomato...

    I hope this helps.. I have 1 WRT54G v2 (4MB/16MB), and several WRT54GL/gs (4MB/16MB)(8MB/32MB) & 3 Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 & 1 WHR-G54S & 1 USR5461 (2MB/8MB)(dd-wrt micro)... Some would randomly reboot, while others will have uptimes for several months.. After a month of investigation, I've found the answer... The ones that have several months uptime were flashed using TFT, while the ones that'll reboot after a couple of days were flashed from Tomato's Web-based Firmware flashing page via Firefox (my browser of choice)... Apparently it is either the firmware gets corrupted during flashing by your software firewall or it may be a bug... or the firmware written to flash ram in an area that is bad (who knows)..

    I use a simple batch file Tofu provided and modified it slightly so as to flash to the default (after 30 sec reset)...

    Hope this helps some of you... It's been great for me... be sure to reset BEFORE & AFTER issuing the TFT upload of firmware!

  20. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    Nah, it's a Dell MiniCard 1390...I've seen that fix in the Polarcloud FAQ
  21. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    I've been using Firefox to flash, so maybe you're on to something.
    Are you using Tftpd32 to flash Tomato?
  22. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    No, I use to use tftpd32 many years ago, then linksys' tftp client, later tftp client built-into winxp, now I really like WinAgent's tftp client/server... it's simple and support very large blocks when coupled with their server product..

    It may not matter which client you use, but try WinAgent's tftp client if you like... It's free and I often package it, tftp, with my firmware, in case the computer I flash do not have it, most windows-based computers have ping, but older windows do not, and vista removed tftp, by default, to prevent worms that use it... as soon as I finish upgrading, it gets deleted from my temporary location... along with the firmware...

    btw, turn off any software firewall that you may have, I used an old laptop directly connected to the router for the tftp flash... I've seen corrupt firmware making routers act very strangely...

    Because of the possibilities for corrupted flashes, for broadcom-based routers, I use TFT, and for all my atheros based routers I use redboot for flashing... I've now have much more reliable routers...

    search google for winagent's tftp server/client.. client is free.. server is try before you buy..

  23. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    Well, I tftp'ed it...I hope its a solution. Thanks for the help!
  24. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    I've seen this problem concerning random reboots/restarts in other forums, sometimes it's a bad power brick, but I seem to have it fixed by using TFT to reflash my routers...

    PLEASE tell me if it works for you and the random reboots no longer occur so that I may inform others of this fix and perhaps the Tomato author can investigate this issue...


  25. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    I will update my results...Hopefully in a few weeks, rather than a few days.
  26. Rooki

    Rooki Network Guru Member


    Is it possible to get some manuals how to do that,
    becouse I have the same problems ?

    Where can I get >> batch file Tofu ?


  27. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    In the tomato package, whr_install.bat, edit it to suit your particular need and it's fairly straightforward. You DO NOT need it actually, I've done it the manual way for many years before using batch files, it's the timing (bootwait) that is the issue. It takes a bit of trial and error, and a few bricked routers before you become an expert with tftp ;-)
  28. Low-WRT

    Low-WRT LI Guru Member

    Well, after about 3.5 days, it rebooted:frown:
    Again, it was as we were connecting with the laptop. Apparently 99% of the time the laptop connects, it's fine, but every once in a while it seems to cause a reboot. I've updated the wireless drivers, but still no difference.
  29. u3gyxap

    u3gyxap Network Guru Member

    Why don't you try the generic Broadcom driver instead the Dell's?
  30. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    I suspect it's bad ram or cpu in your case, get a memtester for WRT54G and run it to verify it's NOT hardware related. Then RMA it to Linksys.

    WRT54GL are VERY reliable under Tomato, as are the Buffalos..
  31. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    Oh, almost forgot, on an older WRT54GS model, it has 32MB ram that was also rebooting randomly (low uptimes), I overclocked it slightly and it now performs flawlessly, you might want to overclock it "slightly" 216Mhz perhaps, since linksys did it already with their newer firmware. You may also want to underclock it as well "183MHz" perhaps. They had a bug that was fixed by overclocking it on some ver of their routers but if underclocking works, go add a heatsink (no fan needed) and then a 30s reset, you should now have a stable router.

    In the future I may junk some of these older/flaky routers. They appear to have a special built-in component failure feature that go off once you've used it a certain # of days :-(

    I guess this is used to prevent what happens to a company that makes products that are TOO reliable --> they go out of business!!
  32. Menkatek

    Menkatek Network Guru Member

    I will continue troubleshooting my problem here since it (probably) no longer belongs in the Tomato thread. Basically, I have a WRT54GS v4 with Tomato 1.13 firmware. I have never had short uptimes with 1.12 until I flashed to 1.15. Now, I'm on 1.13 and the problems persist. My latest update:

    The router didn't last six hours! I have upgraded the Intel (not Broadcom) wireless drivers on the notebooks, reduced transmit power to 90 mW and disabled the SSID. When I return on Monday, I will give TFTP a try, once I figure out what it is! I really hope it is the solution. :frown:
  33. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member


    Since the thread was about 4 month old, I've discovered some stuff, if you flash thibor15c which uses older drivers and dd-wrt v24 rc-6.2 which uses newer drivers, and check results/uptimes. If they DO NOT cause random reboots then it's probably not hardware related.

    If BOTH thibor15c & dd-wrt also causes random reboots, it's time to use it for spare parts. :)

    Also, are you using the latest wireless client drivers, since you didn't mention the version. I'm using, although not necessarily the latest driver packages:
    Driver version for Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965 and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 Network Connection cards and driver version for Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 and Intel PRO/Wireless 2915 Network Connection cards. For Broadcom clients version or higher is pretty good. Goto the WLAN proties page to check version.
  34. Sunspark

    Sunspark LI Guru Member

    No new information here, but I will comment on an older message from 2007 in this thread, about using tftp instead of the web interface.

    I must confess that I have gotten so lazy that I have been uploading the firmware into the web interface wirelessly.. not even via ethernet. Heh. It shouldn't be too terrible if it is coded for properly which I think probably has been the case since all one would really need to do is md5 before and after.

    I am wondering if the 'new/old' drivers have code to handle sub-standard components with too wide a variance in quality. Mm.

    Well I suppose we'll have to wait and see.. maybe Jon will surprise us with a new driver version in 1.6. I know he's examining the idea of a new pppoecd daemon so a new driver would make sense for a new version #. Hopefully he's aware of all this.
  35. Menkatek

    Menkatek Network Guru Member


    Both notebooks (there are two actually) are using the latest version,, of the Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG. I think I will try the tftp solution and if it doesn't help, will move on to dd-wrt.

    Actually, I've been meaning to move to dd-wrt but for some reason I have a preconceived notion from a few years ago that HyperWRT had the best WAN throughput out of all the third-party firmwares. Since it seemed a lot of HyperWRT users moved to tofu/Thibor and then Tomato, I believed that the performance was retained. However, I realize this may not be true at all.
  36. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    just curious as to these reboots is there much heat from the router? the vast majority of users dont have reboots with any firmwares, so my guess is that something maybe failing on your board or your power supply.
  37. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    I agree ... the vast majority of users have no issues with 1.15 and reboots ... I'm inclined to think that the problem has less to do with Tomato and more to do with user computer hardware/software/ setups.


    You mentioned that you did not have any problems with version 1.12. My guess is you will have the same problem if you flash to that right now -- or in fact if you flash to any other firmware besides Tomato. I do not have this problem with my Gateway laptop and currently my uptime is about 8 days since flashing to 1.15 without any downtime.

    Have you also tried changing some of the wireless driver settings under Windows? I remember awhile back (3 years) with another firmware I had intermittent connectivity problems and resolved it by changing some of the wireless driver parameters (trial and error). Took a while but eventually resolved my connectivity problem.

    BTW - just use version 1.12 if you had no problems with that, or switch to another firmware. If you still have problems then you know the problem has nothing to do with Tomato.

  38. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    My whr-hp-g54 is so far 6.5 days without a reboot. Last week it lasted about 4 days. On my other router, an older WRT54G, i flashed it with tomato v1.15 and use it in client-bridge mode and experience no reboots, but in AP or AP+WDS it reboots every 1-2 days. On this same older router, dd-wrt has lasted over a month without issues in AP+WDS mode. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with my setup. I just use dd-wrt on the tomato-unstable routers :)
  39. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    There's a version (possibly) pre-release version of Tomato v1.15.1331 that I mention at: http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56319&page=15

    You may wish to try it out as it has newer wl drivers. Unlike the version specifically for the WHR-G125, this one works also with my older bcm4712 routers.

  40. Menkatek

    Menkatek Network Guru Member

    There isn't much heat coming out of the router. It is in a cool room (it's winter here).

    The uptime now is the longest I have seen in a while (Tomato 1.15):

    Uptime 2 days, 01:33:55
    CPU Load (1 / 5 / 15 mins) 0.24 / 0.07 / 0.02
    Total / Free Memory 14.20 MB / 2,172.00 KB (14.93%)
    Status Connected
    Connection Uptime 2 days, 01:30:44

    This is after using Windows XP's built-in tftp to upload the firmware. I followed the instructions exactly as written in the readme.htm file but uploading WRT54GSv4.bin instead. If the router remains stable, then there's not much reason to go back to 1.12. It's still too early to tell but if the tftp method solved the problem, then I really don't know what's going on! :shock:

    Thanks again to all who replied. :) I'll be sure to report back in a few more days.
  41. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    Good to hear it's now working.. In my case it's not heat but firmware related..

    Remember a "flaky" chip may be "warm" outside the black package it is encased, but "heats up=HOT" internally. Have you tried putting a heatsink on the cpu+switch chip (possibly the ram also). 1st try strapping an external case fan on top of it for a week if it doesn't reboot, then add the heatsinks and remove the fan, since its running at default speeds/non-overclocked.
  42. Menkatek

    Menkatek Network Guru Member

    szfong, thanks for the tftp suggestion. I guess it did the trick here. The uptime is past 4 days.

    I'm curious as to why tftp'ing fixed the problem. Here are the details of this router:

    Model: WRT54GS v4
    Purchased in: Hong Kong
    Firmware Upgrade Procedure: flash, power cycle, clear nvram, power cycle, 30-second reset button, power cycle, configure
    Firmware History: stock, Thibor 15c, Tomato 1.12, Tomato 1.15, Tomato 1.13, Tomato 1.15

    Are there no checksums in place to prevent a bad flash? How can flashing be so sensitive? My understanding is that tftp is used to restore bricked routers. From this experience, I now have little faith in the web-based upgrade method. I simply have to use tftp to ensure a proper flash.

    Basically, the resolution could only be due to one of three things. First is that the tftp method worked. Second, there may have been some difference in my flashing procedure besides the tftp. I used one of the notebooks (with wired connection) to flash the router this time. Or third, a person who was trying to crack the router gave up. It is a mystery. :confused:
  43. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    Possible firmware related reasons are that the wl drivers & linux kernel causing random reboots when someone was "aircracking" you or connected using "old" wl drivers on the client.

    The reason I mentioned TFTP was that during some investigation, I sometimes found differences between what was flashed via the webgui when compared to flashing using TFTP. I tend to trust TFTP because it is a file transfer protocol with some form of error detection built-in. I noticed on my La Fonera when flashing from the webgui it was a bit unreliable and the firmware was slightly different from flashing via TFTP.

    Btw, the WRT54GS v4 has a bcm5352 chip (similar to the WRT54GL) and it is quite reliable when combined with Tomato. It may even be a slightly defective "flash" area such that a TFTP flash, as luck had it, did not write any data on the bad area.

    I have a router, a WRT54G v2.0 rev:xh, an oddball in that it has 4MB flash, 32MB ram, that will not last more than 1-2 days with Tomato without randomly rebooting, but dd-wrt rc-6.2 has ran nearly a month worth of uptime.

    It's true TFTP was used before webgui became popular (1980s??) and is VERY resilient, but it's a "pain" to setup! I'll only flash using it on routers I do not plan on updating for a long time.

    Make sure you use a long, randomly generated WPA/WPA2 AES/TKIP key and avoid WEP and you'll be fine.

  44. Menkatek

    Menkatek Network Guru Member

    After my last post, I started having high latency problems in place of random reboots. The first hop outside the router kept pinging unstably between 100 to 900 ms. Now I've discovered all my problems were actually electrical-related! The scheme of the entire setup is this:

    Now Broadband TV STB
    DSL Modem (XAVi EX7722r+) == DSLAM
    Linksys WRT54GS Router

    About a month ago, we moved the TV further away from the DSL modem. I used an ethernet cable and an extender as I've photographed below:


    (That is a passive extender, right?)

    Everything was fine, including TV, until the problems occurred.

    At first, I thought the high pings were due to BitTorrent traffic. But the number of connections were well below 2048 and there were only a few kilobytes of traffic going across in either direction. After a lot of plugging and unplugging which I lost track of, I reached the point where I was using Windows XP's PPPoE dialer to bypass the router and login directly, with BT still running. The problem cleared up (back to 20-30 ms) but the result was still not consistent enough to pinpoint the problem. Then, for some impulsive reason out of the blue, I thought about unhooking the extender. That's when all the pieces came together. Hooking the STB portion made the connection unstable, while detaching it restored it.

    I examined the STB cable as shown in the picture and realized that the wires were all different than any ethernet standard, as you can see with all those red joiners. As hoped, plugging the STB cable directly into the DSL modem did not ruin the Internet connection. :redface:

    During the troubleshooting, the router also randomly rebooted again. So I'm very glad I finally figured out what was wrong. I'll have to contact a tech to see about extending the cable correctly or if someone here knows. It's personally been a journey and I hope this post is useful to someone. The STB cable may have RJ45 ends, but it's no ethernet!
  45. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    This thread died out, did anyone ever establish a reason for random reboots? Drivers? What??

    I always had this happen on my WRT54GL Linksys routers regardless of firmware *.

    I had thought it might be power, but UPS did not cure the problem. Linksys routers have very small capacitors in the power convertor section, 22 MFD if I remember rightly, and so they will lose power and reset after only a few mS. I increased the capacitance to 4,700 MF. It did keep the router running even if I pulled out the power and quickly plugged it back in, and it cured many brownout resets when used without the UPS, but still - the random resets were still there. It was not a power problem.

    I certainly noticed that increasing connections from 2048 to 4096 causes the router to reboot more often, but I think that is a red herring. The problem happens not only on my routers but also on simple AP's. I never found any reason for it.

    On several occasions I was watching the router web GUI and browsing at the time. Firstly, the whole router performance slowed, web access becomes intermittent, then stops. Then it reboots. Unfortunately the web gui doesn't respond to look at CPU load, telnet does not work.


    [* edit: Now proven to be the wireless driver, see rest of thread. Of course, up until recently there was no firmware using the driver, so all firmware suffered from the same problem].
  46. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member


    If I get random reboots, I now test it on three firmwares, Tomato 1.19, Tomato 1.19 ND, and DD-WRT 24 Final (Vintage, NEWD, & Standard). Finally & optionally, Thibor 15c if you don't mind the Linksys interface. If they all produce random reboots, I use THAT router for SPARE PARTS hehehe ;-) Using DD-WRT for the troublesome router fixed that issue for me. The ND release of Tomato also fix that issue as well.

  47. AlpineMan

    AlpineMan Network Guru Member

    I've stopped getting random reboots when I switched from DD-WRT to Tomato.
  48. szfong

    szfong Network Guru Member

    You didn't say if it's the regular or ND that cause it to stop rebooting. Just wondering.

    Also if those who STILL get random reboots with Tomato and insist on using the non-ND/stable release, putting/using that Tomato router in client or client-bridge mode, rather than AP mode should also stop it from randomly rebooting.

    Faulty ram/hardware and someone "improperly" aircracking/packet injecting your Tomato routers are also possible causes of random reboots.

  49. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Getting back after a while with the benefit of a lot of research, testing, and thought...

    The reboots are due to connections to my routers by PC's using the Intel 2200b/g chipset, it would seem. I have about 20-25 users with them.

    Using the ND drivers cures the reboot problems, but now those very same people are unable to connect. As they are paying customers, this isn't very satisfactory :)

    Most of the time routers reboot after a while, sometimes not. That is when it causes real problems. I have discovered is that when an Intel based PC connects to my '54GL's, some of them take a spike of high current, tripping the power supplies into protection mode, and leaving about 3v on the routers. I haven't seen anyone mention this before. Somebody with some decent test equipment might be able to figure out what is happening. But it does explain why there is no apparent kernel panic or logged problem - effectively, the router just lost it's power. Most of the time, this doesn't happen, fortunately.

    I am grateful to Victek for attempting to address the wireless driver problem!

  50. i1135t

    i1135t Network Guru Member

    I think it definitely has something to do with the wireless... I was testing my uptime at one point, and noticed that it would never go past 3 days. After doing some tests, with a reliable AP-700 Proxim Access Point, my random reboots went away and now I have a solid uptime, until I force a reboot for testing purposes.

    I have about 4-7, mixed B/G clients running all at the same time. This happened with original and Speedmod firmware... so must be something they all have in common, firmware related. I suppose it only happens when running with mixed clients (B/G). I have not tested it with just G or just B clients, but I don't have time right now. Maybe someone is willing to test it...

    Anyhow, with me running the separate AP connected via cat5 to WRT54GL v1.x, with wireless disabled on the router, my up time is stable.
  51. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Found a few articles about the Intel card problem, and thought I would add it here.

    * This bit is wrong - it is the client (Intel) hardware that closes down for a while, the router in the meantime stores traffic for that client until it wakes up again. It is this part of the power management that seems not to be working correctly, the Intel card does not seem to wake up, or perhaps the timing is wrong.
  52. TexasFlood

    TexasFlood Network Guru Member

    Good information. Think I'll save it off in case a friend has this issue. I had a power saving related problem with my onboard Intel wired Ethernet adapter which reoccurs whenever I upgrade the driver. It has to do with an advanced setting called "deep smart power down". Normally if there is a momentary problem with my wireless, it goes un-noticed. However with the deep power down set, the wired connection wakes up and causes just enough interriuption to break my VPN tunnel. Just disabling that makes the issue go away. Took me a while to find it because I wasn't looking at my wired network config for the cause of a wireless problem.
  53. guillaumy

    guillaumy LI Guru Member

    Strange, I've had Linksys (WRT54G/GS) and Buffalo (WHR-HP-G54) units deployed in many networks.

    In these networks there are plenty of Intel wired and wireless users using different brands of computers, all on latest drivers as far as possible, and all without any magic tweaks.

    Zero issues so far.

    What they have in common:

    1. The Linksys units are all WRT54G/GS v 2-4
    2. All units are powered with switching transformers.
    3. Regular Tomato firmware.

    Edit: I forgot to add that there is one lone case of WRT54G v5 (blecch!) using DD-WRT v24 (previously v23 and subsequent SPs and major betas). That has not shown odd rebooting problems as well.
  54. TexasFlood

    TexasFlood Network Guru Member

    We only have a Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG used here and have no issues with it. However I have read many reports of problems with the Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200BG. And not just on Tomato but with other firmware as well. So I have no first hand experience with those issues but what I've read sure seems to point to some sort of issue with the 2200BG.
  55. guillaumy

    guillaumy LI Guru Member

    I have always wondered what could possibly cause the router to reboot.

    I mean, is it a kernel panic? It would have to be a serious software problem to bust the Linux kernel, I imagine.

    So when I first heard about this problem, I leaned toward the hardware failure hypothesis.

    Quite a few old hands around my area use over-spec'ed switching transformers to power their routers as a preventative measure (if input power is DC). Anecdotally, it makes the router more stable. I am not about to suggest cause-and-effect (since I do not see the problem in the first place) but it might be worth a shot to try switching transformers as a troubleshooting step.
  56. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Mainly it is the 2200B/G which is the PITA but some of my users with other cards including the 3945ABG also were affected. There seem to be so many versions of both hardware and software drivers, it is very hard to get any idea of why some have the problem and others don't, or why updated software works for some but not all.

    Anyway, I can confirm that the problem is totally cured by using firmware with the latest drivers.

    DD-WRT has recently been revamped for v24 and uses this driver.

    So last month I changed some of my AP's to DD-WRT v24sp1 mini, which has been running on 16 WRT-54GL's for 2 weeks with not a single reboot, and no complaints from any Intel users about not being able to associate.

    Also take a look at Gargoyle, OpenWRT Kamikaze, X-WRT based on Kamikaze, and others with this newer driver.

    FYI - I found an article somewhere on the web which explained how the problem occurs, I posted an excerpt here:

    So, as time passes, the problem will go away as more firmware is adapted to use newer Linux kernel and the newer driver.
  57. The-Kevster

    The-Kevster Addicted to LI Member

    I've just jumped onto the Tomato band wagon and have noticed the same issue over the past 3-4 weeks. My uptime has been a maximum of 4-5 days and I have a laptop with an Intel 4695AGN that has the same issue.

    Has anyone upgraded Tomato to use the new kernel and wireless drivers?

  58. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    In my experience, the ND build of Tomato solves a great many of these stability problems (particularly versus Intel wireless chipsets, which my laptops use) - my maximum uptime went from just shy of two weeks to a month and a half and counting.

  59. The-Kevster

    The-Kevster Addicted to LI Member

    Where can I find the ND build?

    Thanks again!
  60. The-Kevster

    The-Kevster Addicted to LI Member

    Scrap that....I'm already using the speed patched Tomato Firmware v1.21.8502 which is an ND build and I still have the problem :(
  61. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    Are you sure? SpeedMod comes in both regular and ND flavors.

  62. The-Kevster

    The-Kevster Addicted to LI Member

    How would I tell? I posted the build tag a couple of posts back.
  63. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    The build tag won't indicate it.

    If the size of /lib/modules/2.4.20/kernel/drivers/net/wl.o is 551856, you are on the standard build. If the size is 827660, you're on ND.

  64. The-Kevster

    The-Kevster Addicted to LI Member

    # ls -lia wl.o
    170 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 551856 Aug 8 18:32 wl.o

    Well there's my answer to that! So where is the ND speedmod all singing all whistles version :D

    And should I factory reset after flashing?



    Found it....flashed it.....but do I need to factory reset?

    http://touristinparadise.blogspot.com/search/label/WRT54G Router
  65. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    No reset required, just (re)flash and go.


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