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RV042: Load Balancing Options from the manual, where to find

Discussion in 'Cisco Small Business Routers and VPN Solutions' started by buddel, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    Hi everybody,
    I just bought a new RV02. I only use it for load balancing. I use two different wan connection, one is fast and one is very slow. As I look into the manual of the router, there is a possibility to adjust the load, when the second channel will be opened. Thats very important to me, because i have to pay for the second channel, so i only want to use it, if load maybe more than 80%. Thats why i checked the manual before buying it. But it doesnt metter how i try, there is no way to adjust the balance. first i thought i would be to stupid to find it, but right now i recognized, that the foto in the maual shows a firmware version 1.2.1. Ok, so I decided to load that older firmware, but i didn´t´ ind it anywhere. the first firmware describe here is about 1.3.x. For those who didnt believe: That whats inside my manual: If Load Balance is selected, there will be two main choices: By Traffic – Intelligent Balancer (Auto) and user
    defined.
    First, choose the Max. Bandwidth of Upstream (64K/128K/256K/384K/512K/1024K/1.5M/2M/2.5M or above) and
    Downstream (512K/1024K/1.5M/2M/2.5M or above) for WAN1 and WAN2, as provided by your ISP.
    Intelligent Balancer (Auto): When choosing Intelligent Balancer, it will automatically compute the maximum
    bandwidth of WAN1 and WAN2 by using Weighted Round Robin to balance the loading.
    If (upstream / downstream / upstream or downstream) bandwidth is excessive (30%, 40%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%,
    90%), bring up the second link.
    When there is an inactivity time-out (None/10min/20min/30min/40min/50min/60min), the second link will be
    terminated.
    Figure 5-23: Dual-WAN Smart Link Backup

    That exactly the feature i need... So can anyone help me, or maybe iam only too stupid to find that option..
    Thanks.
     
  2. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    If Load Balance (Auto Mode) is selected, it will be automatically computing the max bandwidth of WAN1 and WAN2 by using Weighted Round Robin to balance the loading.

    Network Service Detection
    This tool can detect the network connection status of ISP by ping Default Gateway, ISP Host, Remote Host or DNS Lookup Host.
    Retry count: The count of ping. The default is 5.
    Retry timeout: The interval between two ping actions. The default is 30 seconds.
    When Fail:
    Generate the Error Condition in the System Log: The Router will generate the System Log when ping fail to inform users that the ISP connection is disconnected.
    Remove the Connection: This WAN Interface will be suspended when the network connection to ISP is not active. The traffic on this WAN will be dispatched to the other WAN port. Once ISP returns to connect, the traffic will be dispatched back.

    If you check this Detection box, you have to choose at lease one option from the following four items.
    Default Gateway: If you check this item, the Router will pint the default gateway first.
    ISP Host: After ping Default Gateway, the Router will ping ISP Host “Retry timeout" later. The ISP Host is provided by ISP.
    Remote Host: Enter the IP address of Remote Host that you’re going to ping.
    DNS Lookup Host: Enter the Host Name or Domain Name that you’re going to ping.

    Bandwidth
    Enter The Max. Bandwidth of Upstream and Downstream for WAN1 and WAN2 provided by ISP.

    Protocol Binding
    RV042 supports the Protocol Binding functionality. It allows users to specify the internal IP or/and Service going through the specified WAN port. Service: Users can choose the Service from the drop-down menu, or click the service management to add new Service. The default Service is SMTP. Source IP: Users can specify the internal IP to go through the specific WAN port. If users need the Service Binding only, users don't need to fill in the Source IP, and the default of Source IP is zero.
    Destination IP Range: Users can specify the specific Service from the internal Source IP to Destination IP Range go through the specific WAN port, and enter the Destination IP Range. If users need the Service Binding only, users don't need to fill in the Destination IP Range, and the default of Destination IP Range is zero. If users need IP Binding only, please select All from the Service drop-down menu.
    Interface: Choose WAN1 or WAN2.
    Enable: Users can check the enable box to enable this Protocol Binding rule.

    Click Add to list button to add the Protocol Binding rule to list, and users can set up to 30 rules, or click Delete selected application button to delete the selected rule.



    when your on the load balancing page, click More
     
  3. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    thanks, but

    Thanks for your quick and long answer. Bu thats not what i like to hear. for me it doesnt matter to connect with two line at full speed. I have a cheap and fast DSL line and a much slower and expensive ISDN line. Cause of ADSL (much down / little up) I turn on 128kB more when uploading a lot. I would be happy, if i can decided at how much load the router will activate the second channel. Thats why i read the manual BEFORE buying the router. I already heared about cheap one, but I thought the linkssys is ajustable, like i ha seen on the pictures in the manual. and now, i cn do nothing but say balance auto... ok i can take your tips to make it depending on the online time, but not really depending on the load. Right know I spend much money for the router, but i cannot use it for wich i like to use it and thats only linksys changed he bios and i cannot load the old one... we cannot get faster dsl here... so this was the first step to two small dsl lines, just give it a try i tought...
     
  4. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    tbh I am not understanding you from the first post, you say you cannot find it.

    look at this URL

    http://www.linksysdata.com/ui/RV042/1.2.3/sys_dualwan1.htm

    now click on the LOAD BALANCE

    is this not what you want?

    the second channel os started when you reach the limit of your bandwidth on the first connection, the settings are entirly upto YOU
     
  5. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    Yeah, that is exactly hat discribed in my manual. But if you use newer firmware nothing will pop up if you click on load balance. so where can i find this firmware? And what is needed to get the firmware into the box (iam totally new to linksys products). Before that i tried to play a little bit wth the bandwidth, but the isdn channel is dialing much to often (nearly every 2 minutes). He stay up for 1 minute and so on. So right know i cn say stay up for 10 minutes (maybe i will tell the isdn router to kill connection meanwile) and only use the second channel if first know is about 80% for example. for me it is much cheaper to run 80% --- 10% than to run 50% --- 50% So i searche deverywhere before, were to get this firmware, and i would like to know why linksys take away this feature. i like to try al little bit to get the best solution for me. if i dont like that i can still take the auto option, i think such a load balancer requires more ptions, because there are many possiblilites to connect wan devices...
     
  6. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    I am using the newer firmware and it works. any one from that firmware upward has this feature, what firmware version do you have
     
  7. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    i received the router from the store with 1.3.1 i think. i read the manual and was getting crazy because i never found this auto function and the button. after a long time and looking at the pictures of the manual i noticed firmware 1.2. So i searched everywhere and tried to install the oldest firmware i found... i found the right on e 1.2.2. but it is gpl code and i dont know you to flash this. so i decided to tak ethe newest one i can found, and i read a lot of your articels, so i got 1.3.7.4 right now, but i never seen such a load balncing menue before. my windwos looks like that...
     
  8. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    Load balance brings up the Bandwidth and Protocol Binding heading. just click on smart link backup and you'll see Bandwidth AND Protocol Binding disappear.

    That IS the load balancing.
     
  9. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    That is for sure load balancing. But it is load balancing without any option. The picture you send earlier showing firmware 1.2.3 had more options, so i can decide at with load the second channel will be used too. Wha I have right now is the auto balancer. But because i use two total diffeent lines (bandwith and the price) i think the router cannot handle it, like i would handle it manually. I need load balanc by traffic not by bandwith. So the only thin gi need is an old firmware, thats it. I read that linkssys removed this option, i think when they were going from 1.2.x to 1.3.x Is the noone who had an old firmware version ready to load? Or maybe i am to stupid to understand this. how should i use protocol binding and max bandwith to tell the router two enable the second line only when bandith of the first line exceeds 80% for example?

    Thanks.
     
  10. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    I guess you use it by trial and error, since there is no information on this.

    ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pub/network/rv042-fw-1.3.1.zip

    is the oldest i have seen in my time. try linksys live chat to see if they have any older firmware, if you really need this feature.
     
  11. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    There is a firmware 1.2.2 available at linksys. Bu it is only downloadable as a gpl code. I have nothing here to build the code... I have a screenshot of my original manual, it was delifered as an pdf file on an original linksys cd showing how to manage load balancing. the screenshot shows version 1.2.1 with the feature i need...
     
  12. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    I will try to contact linksys via live chat. thanks a lot anyway. is there a small how to build firmaare from gpl ? the release note of 1.3.1 say someting about that they have chanceg load balancing...
     
  13. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    The compiling of the RV source is afaik quite complex. check this link

    http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3163

    noaaah i think compiled his own firmware, but i have not seen him on here for some time now.

    Yeah load balaning now is:

    If Load Balance (Auto Mode) is selected, (there is no other manual mode however) it will be automatically computing the max bandwidth of WAN1 and WAN2 by using Weighted Round Robin to balance the loading.
     
  14. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    I have 1.3.1 here. there were also 1.2.1 1.2.2 and 1.2.3 howver i cannot find these as yet.

    changes in 1.3.0 were to do with load balancing

    RV042 Firmware Revision History
    v1.3.1 2004/09/24
    1. Fix PPPoE connection problem with Westell/Bell South.
    2. Fix packets received by neighboring port on LAN side.
    3. Fix the system crash caused by IP fragments.
    4. Fix the system stalled due to protocol binding setting.
    5. Fix the routing problem after DHCP client release its IP.
    6. Fix the problem on adding more than two protocol binding rules.
    7. Fix the problem on removing equalizer after failed on NSD.
    8. Fix one to one NAT problem.
    9. Fix UPnP interoperability with MSN.
    10. Fix the syslog stalled problem while hiting with heavy loaded events.
    11. Enhance the NAT session cleanup logic for setting up session efficiently.
    12. Fix UPnP Presentation URL from “/index.cgi†to “/â€.
    13. Add a rectangle button on choosing descending/ascending order on [System Log] page.

    v1.3.0 2004/08/18
    1. Support full-range remote management port setting
    2. Support full-range configurable Load-balance bandwidth
    3. Support the Network Service Detection functionality.
    Purpose: It detects the connectivity between Router and specified host.
    It will log messages or remove connection when connection dropped.
    4. Support the Protocol Binding functionality. It allows users to specify IP or/and service passing through the specified WAN port.
    5. Remove the Bandwidth Threshold options. Because it got hard to understand when it working together with the Protocol Binding.
    6. Support the DNS Resolved functionality. It allows users to specify the IPSec Remote Security Gateway IP as a DDNS name.
     
  15. buddel

    buddel LI Guru Member

    That what i mean before. So I will need some firmware befopre 1.3.1. i tested the router, but i cannot use the bandwith option with my constelation. it makes no sense to me to split the bandwith from the beginning. it makes sense for me to take a second line if a special limit is reached. so maybe somewhere or someone have an old firmaware for me? by the way i cannot understand, that linksys is slling this router which such an old manual with such old prints in it..
     
  16. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    they removed it because of problems. if you cannot accept that well....ask tech support to send you an old version but you will loose more valueable features, and have a buggy load balance option that obviously does not work :)
     
  17. d__l

    d__l Network Guru Member

    Does anyone know how the RV042 uses those max bandwidth settings that you entered in the load balance page? Do those speeds affect the load distiribution between the two WANs?

    Buddel would like to see some way of controlling the partitioning of the load as the old firmware had. I have not experimented with this yet so everything I will say is speculation, but perhaps the maximum bandwidth speed settings might influence the load partitioning.

    If one has two WAN connections with unequal speeds, then the router shouldn't be trying to send equal amounts of packets across each, but should at least balance the sent packets in proportion to the speeds. So if one connection that isn't to be used as much has its max bandwidth speeds deliberately under reported, then maybe the router will shift traffic away from that WAN. This might be worth a try to see if it works this way.
     
  18. d__l

    d__l Network Guru Member

    Well to answer my own question somewhat, deliberately lowering/under reporting the secondary WAN's maximum download speed setting on the load balance page to 1/10th of the primary line's speed on an RV082 did NOT result in the primary line being used ten times more on a group of speed tests.

    Edit: Upon further testing, I find that the above statement isn't completely valid. Various types of speed tests -- Java-based, flash-based, etc -- are complicated as to how the download AND upload speed proportions control which WAN is used for the test. See my next post.

    As far as I can see so far, it made no difference to any operation of the router. When the primary line is fully utilized with a download, then the secondary line can still download at full speed and not the deliberately reduced speed that had been entered for the max speeds.
     
  19. d__l

    d__l Network Guru Member

    In an effort to determine if the bandwidth settings:

    WAN1 = Primary upstream speed set in router = U1
    WAN2 = Secondary upstream speed set in router = U2

    X = WAN1 proportion of total upload speed available = U1/(U1+U2)

    controlled the distribution of usage between the WANs on the RV082 using firmware 1.3.2, I carried out several PingPlotter tests with various upload proportional speed settings. Pingplotter will capture the route switches between WAN1 and WAN2 during an extented ping test. I ran tests that were 500 pings long and then analysed the proportion of pings going out on WAN1 vs. WAN2.

    P = Proportion of pings going out WAN1 = Number of WAN1 pings/500

    When the upload bandwith settings were set to their actual upload speeds the resulting X was 0.673 and the ping test yielded a P of 0.682.

    I deliberately lowered the WAN1 upload speed setting so that the new X proportion was 0.158. The ping test resulted in a P of 0.134.

    Changing the upload speed settings did not limit the download speeds in any way. Two simultaneous FTP download threads would result in the speed of both lines being full used.

    So apparently if you wanted to bias the usage to an inexpensive WAN1 line vs an expensive metered WAN2 line, you would simply set the WAN2 downstream and upsteam speeds to be extremely low. The degree of bias would be determined by the proportion of speeds for WAN1/(WAN1+WAN2).
     
  20. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    Nice one d_l very thorough explaination, Thanks!
     
  21. d__l

    d__l Network Guru Member

    Toxic, does the dual WAN operation I've described also apply to the RV042? I don't have that router available for testing.

    One thing I've also found is that the upload speed proportions often times will control the download speeds. Once you think about this it all makes sense.

    For example, you have two connections: one fast and one slow, but if you "bias" the entered max upstream bandwidth to favor the slow WAN, then the router will preferentially make connections on that side and then use that connection its upload OR download speeds. This is the case for a connection to an FTP server.

    However, there are other speed tests that do not work that way such as the NDT test: http://netspeed.stanford.edu/. These tests do the upload speed test first on one WAN, and then use the other WAN connection for the download speeds. Very bizzare.
     
  22. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

  23. d__l

    d__l Network Guru Member

    OK, another thought just occurred to me. Quite a few people have complained about having to bind the https protocol to one WAN or the other to be able to use banking sites, etc. which sort of defeats the purpose of the dual WAN. I've seen no problem like that accessing and browsing around https sites such as PayPal or credit card sites (but I haven't actually uploaded any information to them though).

    Perhaps the problem is caused when broadband connections with equal speeds are used and the max upstream and downstream speeds entered on the load balancing page are set to be equal for each WAN. This means that when someone is browsing and opens a new or second connection at a banking site, there is a 50/50 chance that the next connection will be through the other WAN so the IP will be different from the original connecting IP which apparently the https sites do not like for security reasons.

    My two WANs have widely different speeds and these are entered this way on the load balancing page. There is much less chance that I will ever connect to an https site with the second WAN and so I've not had any problems with https sites.

    Perhaps instead of binding the https protocol to to one of the WANs, people could deliberately set their second WAN upload speed to that the ratio between the two is very high, say 100 to 1, even though the two broadband connections are of equal speeds. This will bias the WAN usage to the "supposed" faster upload side. In a busy office environment, then most of the traffic will go out that side, but IF that WAN is full the traffic will "roll over" to the other WAN.

    It seems this solution would greatly reduce the possibility that a second connection to an https site would use the IP of the other WAN, but unlike the binding method it would allow the second WAN to be used if needed.
     
  24. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    tbh it would be better if using load balancing to bind the https protocol (in loadbalancing) as opposed to access rules if they are having problems with https.
     

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