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slow connection ASUS RT-N16

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by tjfriese, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. tjfriese

    tjfriese Addicted to LI Member

    I have attached inSSIDer images to this post.

    I am running a newly purchased RT-N16. I have purchased ASUS wireless N USB sticks for the computers that connect to the router wirelessly.

    I regularly connect to the router at 13.5 Mbps (and sometimes varying rates up to 300 Mbps). The average rate given by Windows while I am connected to wireless seems to remain around 13.5 Mbps even though the laptop is in the same room as the router. The 13.5 Mbps connections became much more frequent (almost constant) last night. I am running the latest Toastman (7494.3). Increasing transmission power does not seem to help. I have left the channel at 11 as that seems to work best in the past.

    I have also tried the latest Tomato with similar results. I never used to experience issues like this with my older WRT54GL (it would always connect at 54 Mbps and never decrease).

    Any advice anyone can offer concerning this would be greatly appreciated.

    Would anyone recommend trying the ASUS firmware? Is it usable these days?

    Edit: I am the "Tim" network.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    What network are you? "Tim"? If so, then you have a fairly strong neighbor in 99AA55. Changing your channel to 1 wouldn't help since you have an even stronger neighbor in EE36FD.

    I would try going from 40Mhz to 20Mhz since that should be able to punch through the interference better. If that doesn't work then buy hotter antennas for the RT-N16 and drown them out.
     
  3. tjfriese

    tjfriese Addicted to LI Member

    Monk E. Boy:

    I have tried 20 Mhz and haven't noticed much of an improvement. Occasionally it will regularly work at 144 Mbps at that point (I assume because 20 Mhz is half of 40 Mhz?)

    How do I go about buying better antennas? Where should I look? What specific product?

    Edit: What about something like this: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX17244

    Edit: I see different antennas, some say B or G only (but are still 2.4 Ghz from the looks of it), and some are way more expensive ($130.00 plus).

    Here's a listing: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/WirelessAntennas
     
  4. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    You need antennas with an SMA connector, technically RP-SMA but not everyone differentiates between RP-SMA and SMA (you need a female connector, not a male connector - male is the one with a post). You can pick up antenna "kits" (replete with clamshell packaging) everywhere but they're usually kind of pricey, as you've found on that site, but if you can just buy the antennas it's usually cheaper.

    You can go with eBay but often times the people selling them don't actually have a clue about what they're selling, so you could buy an antenna that's supposed to come with RP-SMA connectors only to find it actually comes with a different connector. I bought a couple antennas for my 54GL off eBay and one of the antennas came in bent because the guy didn't pack them properly.

    Currently I've seen a few people talking about having bought antennas from this place, and their prices seem reasonable:
    http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=6350

    I'll be replacing my router's antennas with a set of theirs shortly, the ones I bought off NewEgg were twice the price and extended the range, but outside on the patio it's a little dicey - I was hoping to get there and be strong.

    Essentially you need a 2.4Ghz antenna. There is no difference between 2.4Ghz antennas that work for 802.11b, 802.11g, or 802.11n - the physical antenna for all three are the same. Obviously the RT-N16 has three antennas and your WRT-54G only had two, but aside from the number of antennas the actual element inside the plastic is the same (basically a particular thickness of a type of metal cut to precisely the correct length). The G/GL used RP-TNC connectors, in case you were thinking of reusing the old antennas.

    Also, I wouldn't dial up the amplifier any higher than stock, if you go much further you start amplifying the noise in the mass-produced transmitter. There's a sweet spot right around Tomato's default setting.
     
  5. hawkmat

    hawkmat Networkin' Nut Member

    Hi Tim!
    First I would drop to 20 Mhz as you have too much interference for 40 Mhz operation. I would only run 40 Mhz @ 2.4 Ghz channels if I did not see any other networks.
    Channel 11 looks like your best bet.
    If possible try moving your router around to different locations see if the signal improves.
    The wireless speed reported by windows is not very accurate so I would testing it by doing downloads from servers and internet speed test.
    Better antenna for RT-N16 are available here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833998040
    Set your transmit power to 60 in Advanced Settings.
    Thanks!
     
  6. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hi Tim, i had an issue similar to yours. As you can check my pick i loaded my RT-N16 with three 9dB antennas and got about an 8% higher range, when done, I tested it from 50 feet with Inssider, and as Toastamn advises, changed power to 60 but later on i found that 62 is the best for me because have steadier and stronger signal at 62 and same noise as 60. For my setting also works better antennas in "A".
    I got the RP-SMA antennas at www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=3069&cat=0&page=1 and remember that must be females.
    Just my two cents.
    Rgds.
     
  7. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    Oh, and with some clients you can get a more consistent signal by using the built-in Windows wireless client vs. vendor-written software, while others are the reverse. Sometimes the vendor software is just a pretty front end on top of the Windows client, in which case there won't be a difference.
     
  8. hawkmat

    hawkmat Networkin' Nut Member

    I find the 5dB antenna to be the sweet spot with the RT-N16. A small increase in range vs. interference. I tested and found that the 9dB antenna's make the signal worse because they increase reception of interference which slows down transfer rates. Toastman recommends a transmit power of 60 which is what I use. The difference between 60 and 62 would be immeasurable especially since this router max output at 60 (See Toastman forum article on the subject). The RT-N16 is a mimo device which uses 3 antenna's to send and receive. The A and B under Advanced Settings is for old G routers and does not apply with the RT-N16. I should mention that you should place the antenna's in a W pattern ( \|/) rather than all up (|||).
     
  9. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    Technically if a router has 3 antennas it should be a W, if it's got 2 antennas it should be a V. The side antennas should be 90' from each other.

    This is why the middle antenna in a MIMO is typically the least used antenna, but serves it's purpose to give you that 3rd orientation in case there's some temporary interference on one of the side antennas. Those 9db antennas have a really spiky vertical gain pattern, which could result in worse performance at certain angles. It should be most noticeable after punching through multiple floors. If you're on a single floor it should only matter if you get stuck in one of those troughs (but the other 2 antennas should still have enough overlap to cover you).

    I think this is why a lot of internal antenna routers are popular in some circles, people who don't orient their antennas properly tend to get bitchy about lousy performance, never realizing the problem is wet-, not soft- or hard-, ware. I have to walk around my employer every few weeks and straighten up antennas or else people will start complaining... but trying to explain RF to non-technical people is daunting, especially since I'm half a ham at best, so they keep bumping antennas, adjusting them for feng shui, and similar nonsense and I keep wandering around fixing it before the entire mess implodes.

    Those 5db antennas have a really broad pattern, I'll have to pick up a set and try them out.
     
  10. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hi, as you can see at my picks at Inssider i have a lot of networks around mine, so i need to be above all of them because my comp is not close to the router, so with the 9dB antennas i have insignificant more interefernce but the result is better download speed and better RF output. By the way, i know that from 60 to 62 gap signal is imeasurable but as told before, at 62 i found that RT-N16 signal is stronger, smooth and more steady than all others, also seen at the Inssider picks.
    Rgds.
    mito
    PS. mine at Inssider is green "asus"

    foto1.jpg foto3.jpg
     
  11. tjfriese

    tjfriese Addicted to LI Member

    Thanks for the advice. I will look into getting some 5dB antennas. For now I have moved the router to a higher position, adjusted the antennas to a W and switched to channel 7 on 40 Mhz lower. This seems to be working for now.

    I am curious why I never noticed this interference with the WRT54GL. Is it because of the differences between G and N. Is it because everyone operates at 40 Mhz?
     
  12. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Check with Inssider at some distance from the AP the antennas inclination and transmit power, do one thing at a time, then check it, not close to AP. The unit already comes with 5dB antennas, think about 9dB. When crowded G has some advantage over N, yes if every one is in 40Mhz you have some trouble. My wifi card is an Intel 4965 agn and never get more than 144Mbps in 2.4Ghz but when in other AP at 5Ghz i get 270Ghz my be 300Ghz too.
     
  13. hawkmat

    hawkmat Networkin' Nut Member

    The RT-N16 comes from the factory with 2dB antennas. I would go with the 5dB versions.
     
  14. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    2dB ! oh my God, that's the reason. Go big. Check my Inssider picks, up before, de green "asus" network. Rgds.
     
  15. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    40Mhz is basically a hack to get more bandwidth out of 2.4Ghz by using two channels instead of one. Unfortunately it's a very "bad neighbor" thing to do because there's no way to avoid interfering with each other's signals, because you're each going to using up half the available spectrum, so if more than two neighbors have wireless networks you end up with problems.

    More than likely your neighbors upgraded to 40Mhz routers at around the same time you did, or perhaps in response to you upgrading to your router (since you'd have started tromping all over their traffic). Make no mistake - you're having connection problems and the guy who you're competing for signal strength with is also having connection problems. If you both switched to 20Mhz and put yourself on separate channels the problems would go away and you'd get faster overall speeds due to not interfering with the other. Cooperation beats selfishness every time.
     
  16. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

    So, this male/female naming convention is a bit confusing when it comes to RP-SMA connectors. Take a look at the image below. What's on the back of an RT-N16 is on the right (top) hand side of this image, which would make it RP-SMA female. To match this, one would need to buy an antenna with an end that looks like what's on the left (bottom) hand side of this image, which would make it RP-SMA male.

    [​IMG]

    So, you need to find a replacement antenna that looks like this (RP-SMA male):
    [​IMG]

    More info here:
    http://www.allendale-stores.co.uk/gsm/info/gsm_connector_lookup_tables.html

    If I'm wrong on this, please correct me. I am about to purchase some more powerful antennas for my RT-N16 as well and don't want to buy the wrong kind...
     
  17. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

    If all your wireless clients were located directly above the router (2 floors up), would it still be recommended to stick to this basic W pattern?
     
  18. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Attached Files:

  19. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

  20. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Picks at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMA_connector "Figure 1. Standard male SMA connector: Female body (inside threads) with male inner pin." nor "Figure 2. Female RP-SMA connector: Female connector body (outside threads) with a male inner pin contact. A male RP-SMA connector is the opposite in both respects — male connector body (inside threads) with a female inner sleeve contact." , both are not correct one for Asus N-16. As you can see they speek about "female body" (littel hole) with male inner pin=penis ;) so if the conector has some or any pin, it would not plug in RT-N16 bacause the pin = penis is already fixed inside the Asus box, so it must be full "female cover" with out any pin=penis. The Figure 1 conector has a pin so no way, and the Figure 2 also has a pin so neither fit.
    Rgds.
    mito
     
  21. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

    Figure 2 on wiki is what you have on the back of your RT-N16. Wiki/industry calls it Female. Therefore, you need an antenna that has a Male connector for the two to match. The nomenclature sounds backward though.
     
  22. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

    So, are these Rosewill 5 dBi antennas that Newegg sells any good? They're certainly cheap and have 4 out of 5 stars, but a few reviewers complained that they did not improve signal strength at all compared to stock 2 dBi antennas... not sure which router model they tried them on...
     
  23. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Dear Pete, with all my respect i think you are in a mistake because first of all when i bought my three 9 dBl antennas i asked for female and my avatar pick show what they sent me, second you are ok when you say that Fig.2 is what i have on the back of my RT-N16 and everything is a male screw and a pin that goes full inside the antenna as also shows my below Asus back pick.
    I think my dialog ended, and hope "tjfriese" can clarify a little more when purchasing his antennas.
    best rgds.
    mito
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Pete7874

    Pete7874 LI Guru Member

    Well, if I'm mistaken, then so are all these other sites that I posted previously, including Wikipedia and Newegg. :)

    Anyway, all this just proves that one has got to be careful when purchasing these antennas. Better to verify pictures/photos instead of relying on some confusing terms. With that said, I've never actually seen an antenna that would have a connector that looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    All the ones I've seen look like this, people just call them by a different name:
    [​IMG]
    So, it's probably impossible to buy an antenna with the wrong connector anyway. :) As long as it's RP-SMA, you should be good to go.
     

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