spontanious crashes with tomato 1.25 and before.

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by michiel26, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. michiel26

    michiel26 Addicted to LI Member

    Hi all,

    I have a linksys wrt54gl 1.1 with tomato.
    i have my modem in bridge mode, and my linksys as router.

    I have connected the following: 2 x pc LAN and 3 x laptop WIFI.

    I experience sudden crashes once or twice a week.
    I cannot connect to the internet, nor to the lan or linksys..

    Only thing that helps is a reboot of the linksys.

    I had this problem with all previous versions of tomato as well, but not with the linksys firmware. I do not have this problem when the modem is in router mode and the linksys as switch as well.

    How can I determine if this is a firmware bug, or a hardware mallfunction?

    kind regards, michiel
  2. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    These crashes are mostly related to wireless reboot, we lived this situation in some Tomato version before we changed to ND version and updated to wireless driver later (Teddy_Bear upgrade), did you tried ND version to check if the phenomena is gone? Only with normal navigation or also with high P2P load?

  3. michiel26

    michiel26 Addicted to LI Member

    I guess this happens with any traffic load, not only p2p, but I haven't checked all the user pc's when the crash happens..

    They do use Wifi, so this could be the reason, though it doesn't happen when the linksys router mode is disabled and is only used as switch, and the lan connection is gone as well when the router crashes..

    Should I still try the ND version? I do find the following on this forum:
    "Guys, if you are not using a WHR-G125, I suggest you use the non-ND version."
  4. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    Regarding that quote about the WHR-G125 and the ND version of Tomato, that's outdated information. Log into terminal on your router, and type: nvram show | grep wl0_corerev

    "When digit is =>7 or 9 then use ND version. If <7 or 9 use normal version"

    This goes for any of the Broadcom chipset routers on which you can install Tomato.
  5. s0dhi

    s0dhi LI Guru Member


    Huh? So what do you do if its 9?

    Both cases above suggest you can use either version if the wl0_corerev=9.
  6. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

  7. bripab007

    bripab007 Network Guru Member

    Yes, that is correct. Basically, if it's greater than, or equal to, 7, you can use either ND or non-ND. But, if you've got 7, 8 or 9, then there's really no reason I can think of that you'd even want to run non-ND.
  8. s0dhi

    s0dhi LI Guru Member

    Thanks for the clarification!
  9. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

  10. garretwilson

    garretwilson Addicted to LI Member

    Yes, this whole ND business has always confused me. The main Tomato page doesn't say when you would want to install the ND version. It's not in the FAQ. Little references to it come up on the forum here and there, but nothing definitive.

    Your answer sounds definitive, but it doesn't indicate why I would want the ND version (or not want the non-ND version).

    The Wikibooks FAQ says:

    So wouldn't the problem with 2200B/G clients be "one reason" you could think of "that you'd ... want to run non-ND"?

    I'm going to be out of the country for a while, and I want my router to be ultra-stable so that I can remote in. I also have someone staying in my house using wireless, and I don't know whether they have 2200B/G hardware. I have WRT54GL corerev 9. Which Tomato version do I use?

    Any chance of getting this basic info into the FAQ?

  11. michiel26

    michiel26 Addicted to LI Member

    allright, I've done a telnet to my linksys, and entered nvram show | grep wl0_corerev.
    this is what i get: w10_corerev=9

    So, which firmware do i need to use in order to tackle the crash, and where can i get it?

    kind regards, michiel
  12. sjs

    sjs Network Guru Member

    Yesterday I had the same problem as the OP-- twice--- and its seemingly somewhat reproducible for me now.

    Tomato v1.25 Non ND, WRT54GS V1.0 corerev=7

    the whole router locked. by locked i mean that once this happened, neither wired nor wireless could even ping the router, so everything down obviously, dhcpd, webgui, etc. the interesting thing --

    the SSID was still broadcasting. and active LAN port lights still flickering away.

    didnt know how to debug or even determine if it was a hw or sw problem. power cycling fixed everything.

    this was seemingly caused by an iphone attempting to join the tomato's SSID network.
    i was in the process of disconnecting / rejoining the iphone's wireless session (for other reasons), perhaps 7 times in 5 minutes.
    then suddenly the iphone could no longer connect to the tomato SSID at all.
    i at first assumed the iphone was being flaky, until i realized that by me doing this i had justt crashed the whole house network and the linksys was down.

    i am 2 weeks into tomato here, coming from dd-wrt. i am *extremely* impressed with its QOS and webgui speed.
    but this worried me and i am happy to see someone else with my same problem

    Victek - what did you mean by "wireless reboot"? my router did not reboot, nor did the OP mention a reboot. did you mean that the wireless daemon in the router crashes? in my case, the wireless SSID was still available, yet the whole router was unpingable.
  13. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    I suggest you to try any of the non official ND version... and give your feedback after. Sorry to be so rude... (use the search function in the forum to know more about the problem) .. and now nicely; We suffered this behavior in previous releases and solved in the ND mod (non official) version definitively.

  14. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member


    From the wiki:

    Clearly stated, there is a problem with non-ND driver, that some clients could cause the router to reboot. That ND drivers rectified this but Intel cards then couldn't associate, and that the following script solved that problem too. The answer is already there in the wiki. I've just changed the wording to make it a bit clearer.

    So the ND driver is more stable across a spectrum of different wireless cards - and that is the reason why it is desirable. Many third party ND versions of tomato such as Victek's RAF, Tedddy Bear's USB, incorporate the bug fixes, and will save you the trouble of even writing the script.
  15. garretwilson

    garretwilson Addicted to LI Member

    I can assure you that even your terse reply immensely added clarity to the tiny footnote in the Wiki. Thank you. Perhaps I'll expand on that section in the Wiki to help those who, like me, haven't experimented with the ND version as much as you.

    A couple of follow-ups:

    * If fixing Intel 2200B/G association on ND is as simple as an nvram command, why isn't that included in the Tomato build by default?

    * What functionality does that nvram command *remove*? What do I lose by issuing it? (In other words, why wouldn't everybody issue it? Which begs my first question.)

    * If I issue said nvram command, will it persist through Tomato version upgrades or will I have to issue it again after every upgrade?


  16. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    It is, at least in 1.25 (perhaps 1.24).

    It depends on which version of Tomato. On 1.25+, you can even do a thorough NVRAM clear and it will still be set properly.

  17. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

  18. michiel26

    michiel26 Addicted to LI Member


    I think you're not adressing our problem.
    It is not a reboot of the router, but a complete crash.
    The router is not accessible anymore, nor the internal network.
  19. Planiwa

    Planiwa Network Guru Member

    I think you are saying that you think that . . .

    [1] ND solves the problem of (some) clients causing router auto-reboot
    [2] but your problem is router-unresponsiveness requiring human (reboot) intervention.

    To that I might add a third problem:

    [3] (some clients?) + wl + dnsmasq create a state where clients associate but none are routed, while router remains happily WAN-connected -- requiring human (reboot) intervention.

    (#2 and #3 may be hard to distinguish from the LAN side.)

    * * *

    So, the question to ask might be:

    In addition to preventing auto-reboot problems, is ND known to prevent stuck-LAN problems as well?
  20. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    It's probably related. Whether the router actually reboots or remains crashed is perhaps due to some internal state.

    Here's something for discussion. The "stuck" problem that Planiwa mentions occurs here quite frequently even with the ND driver. Clients (normally with Intel cards but sometimes others) ring me to say they can no longer connect! I look at their nearest AP and find them associated and in the "device" list. I look at the router - nothing, nothing in the logs either. I have examined these laptops, "connection status" show them sending to the AP but receiving nothing back. They have not been issued an IP. Nothing you do to them makes any difference.

    Assuming that they didn't change anything (they say they didn't) and switched off one day to find it not working the next, that left me only Tomato as a suspect. After much experiment, I found that a complete erase of NVRAM and a restore of the config from a backup brings operation to normal. Restoring the backup without erasing NVRAM does not.

    Something seems to be changed in the configuration which can cause a problem. Then it's left in NVRAM which is not changed back by a normal restore, only by an erase cycle. This seems to be the case with 1.23 and also 1.25, but I'm waiting now for it to occur again, and then can compare the NVRAM dumps. Planiwa, I suggest you do the same thing and maybe we can make some headway.
  21. michiel26

    michiel26 Addicted to LI Member

    I've flashed my linksys to the Tomato RAF 1.25.8515 ND from Victec right now, and till now everything seems allright.
    Can't reproduce the crash, so we have to wait and see if it happens again..
  22. sjs

    sjs Network Guru Member

    just a followup. switching to the ND version seems better.
    i havent had any more crashes.
    im now routinely using ND on any model where nvram get wl0_corerev >= 7, and probably would do it only any model >= 5 from what i've read.
    thanks for your help.
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