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Sveasoft and Linksysinfo Split (true or untrue)

Discussion in 'Sveasoft Firmware' started by EnigmaX4, May 1, 2005.

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  1. EnigmaX4

    EnigmaX4 Network Guru Member

    Hey I saw this message in the Sveasoft Forums saying that linksysinfo has broken all ties with Sveasoft.

    Wolf Said:
    "Just an update to this, Linksysinfo has broken all ties with Sveasoft. They have decided it is more important to support a rogue firmware project thats sole purpose is to put Sveasoft out of business any way they can.

    Today they burned their last bridge by banning me from their forum. They are no longer authorized to use the Sveasoft trademarks, and have been told this twice, but they are ignoring it.

    I guess after Sveasoft helped them grow and supported them, we are no longer important. Too bad for them."
    Here is the link for the site Apparently Toxic, the Linksysinfo admin, decided we weren't the flavor of the week and threw his support to some pretty nasty folks that want Sveasoft off the Internet. Linksysinfo survives on ad revenue and their strategy changes from month to month to keep the pennies flowing.

    Pip at http://www.wrt54g.com has been a big help to us and is the official Alchemy public release site. He deserves a big "thanks" and we can help by spreading the word about his site and supporting his forums

    Sveasoft Said:
    Apparently Toxic, the Linksysinfo admin, decided we weren't the flavor of the week and threw his support to some pretty nasty folks that want Sveasoft off the Internet. Linksysinfo survives on ad revenue and their strategy changes from month to month to keep the pennies flowing.

    Pip at http://www.wrt54g.com has been a big help to us and is the official Alchemy public release site. He deserves a big "thanks" and we can help by spreading the word about his site and supporting his forums

    Here is the original link of the topic:http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9430
     
  2. Morpheus

    Morpheus Network Guru Member

    I think cutting all ties to Sveasoft was the best thing Linksysinfo.org has done.
     
  3. dellsweig

    dellsweig Network Guru Member

    Agreed

    (I just bit my lip thinking of the other comment I almost made - I will behave :)
     
  4. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    before this thread gets closed by toxic i want to say long live open source!!! :D
     
  5. odessit

    odessit Network Guru Member

    I am new here. Can someone explain what is that so bad about Sveasoft?
     
  6. pipdipchip

    pipdipchip Network Guru Member

    Haha, welcome to the world of WRT54G.
     
  7. TheMunch8

    TheMunch8 Network Guru Member

    I think that cutting *all* ties might not have been the best idea. Sveasoft is claiming that he is supporting a rogue project. Exactly what is a "Rogue Project?" The project itself is not necessarily there to take sveasoft off the web. From what I read constantly, it is to give more options, and that was the first thing. Next TheIndividual seems to be the one who is the leading anti-sveasoft person, as what happened to him. BrainSlayer seems to only want to code, as how programmers should be. They should not be interested in politics, only making the best possible product they can, which he is.

    Personally, I think Sveasoft is the one burning bridges. The way to keep customers is not to ban them, and not let them stay customers. That is no the way to stay in buisness. I have considered becoming a subscriber before this, but after the recent performances of Sveasoft in both firmware (how Alchemy final actually is *still* buggy, and abandoned so they can get people to pay for their new firmware Talisman, the continual ban of people that were supportive of them, etc) I don't feel like i should be giving my money to them. I think Wolf is a great programmer, but i think that he is being lead too much by Sveasoft's goal of money now. If Wolf went off and started his own firmware, independent of Sveasoft, and just programmed, i would definatly subscribe, donate, what ever you want to call it. I will continue to use Linksysinfo in spite of Sveasofts accusations and attitude.
     
  8. Morpheus

    Morpheus Network Guru Member

    Ditto :lol:
     
  9. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    right now sveasoft should be giving out the source code to their firmware but they are not. and their new aporch to the talisman firmware were they use mac addresse to lock the firmware to a certain router. you canot share the firmware with your firends anymore. there is more to it. like how they charge for support. but if we distrubute the firmware we are not hurting them because they chagre for firmware right???. but when we do share firmware they take those website that share their firmware off.
     
  10. TheMunch8

    TheMunch8 Network Guru Member

    Let me amend this a sec. Long Live honorable buisness tactics also....
     
  11. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    yes me too i will contine to support linksysinfo now, more than ever becuase of the fact that they are not "partners"


    yeah that too :D
     
  12. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    i think that WRT54G.com is a joke. they are the new "laggies" of sveasoft.
    long live linksysinfo


    jdepew :punch: sveasoft
     
  13. pipdipchip

    pipdipchip Network Guru Member

    Yeah, I agree. I laugh every time I go there. LinksysInfo is where it's at. Go Depew!
     
  14. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    pipdipchip
    that is what it says in your sig. your the Webmaster/ Owner of WRT54G dot COM?????????????????
     
  15. pipdipchip

    pipdipchip Network Guru Member

    Yeah so...
     
  16. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    why would you trash your own site????????????? :?
     
  17. Morpheus

    Morpheus Network Guru Member

    Yeah Why?????
     
  18. Avenger20

    Avenger20 Network Guru Member

    Yeah, this James from sveasoft is a very strange guy.

    He doesn't tollerate any other firmware. Doesn't matter if it's openwrt, ewrt, hyperwrt, ... He just tries to make it look bad. Very disappointing if you have to do business that way...

    OpenWRT banned him, EWRT removed all sveasoft code, Oleg from Asus firmware, Linksysinfo, BrainSlayer, me, ... we all have had trouble with James.
    Coincidence? Are we the troublemakers? Don't think so.

    Make up your own mind about all this.

    I think it's the best that Linksysinfo & Sveasoft split.
     
  19. pipdipchip

    pipdipchip Network Guru Member

    Oh, just having a little fun. This whole Linksysinfo vs. Sveasoft vs. DD-WRT vs. Open Source vs. everything else is just sort of funny to me. How much time people spend discussing it.
     
  20. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    this is the first time Avenger20said anything bias about this whole stutation.
    this is very true becasue you cant blame everyone else for being a trouble maker and say that you aren't.
     
  21. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    ok........ :?
    to bad james(sveasoft) does not have that kind of mentality
     
  22. Morpheus

    Morpheus Network Guru Member

    Well who need Sveasoft now wee have the AWESOME DD-WRT.
     
  23. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    yeah, long live dd-wrt!!!!!!
     
  24. Avenger20

    Avenger20 Network Guru Member

    He said some nasty things about me too in the beginning of HyperWRT.
    After that he ignored HyperWRT (guess he was too busy with TheIndividual & BrainSlayer), but I don't forget quick.

    Never brought it up because Wolf or other pro-sveasoft people probably would tell me that I made it up, was jealous, was a liar, ...

    I always tried to stay neutral (like linksysinfo), but at some point it just gets too much.
     
  25. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    james it scard, he is scared of hyperwrt,hyperwap, dd-wrt, openwrt, e-wrt
    tinypeap, mustdie, and wifibox. he scare that they will bring him down. and you what they will! :punch:
     
  26. dellsweig

    dellsweig Network Guru Member

    I am far from a mod on this (or any) forum but PIP needs to tread carefully here - from reading his forums (WRT54G.com) - it looks like he wants it both ways......

    Open source does NOT equal Alchemy..........
     
  27. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    I will allow this thread to run, though please refrain from an all out flame war. what is in the past leave it there, or post it somewhere else.

    This is not how we at linksysinfo wanted it but it happened no the less.

    we @ linksysinfo are not bound by one 3rd party firmware. we want to support ALL firmwares. Though sveasoft thinks they know better and i only support DDWRT firmware, do you really know what i am thinking wolf/james? somehow i dont think so.

    Anyway. Linksysinfo is here to support all of you, no race no color, no creed and no particular 3rd party firmware. we are not bound by the "WRT54G/GS" model like pip's site. we support and welcome all linksys users, and clients who want to know a bit more about linksys products before taking the plunge into buying a linksys product.

    i will though reply to mr Ewings comments.

    what gets me was this statement. i threw myself at ddwrt? erm no.

    Linksysinfo survives like most sites from ad revenues and donations.
    not like some closed forums who have made in excess of $300,000 might i add. a donation of $250 was made at the start of our donation block by james ewing. i am sure that we made him more money than that. none the less, if james is so desperate for this money back then please contact me for a rebate james.

    Anyway guys. enough of sad times. lets look to the future.

    Keep them posts rolling in. we at Linksysinfo appreciate your time visiting us.
     
  28. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    i thought that this forum is going to be closed for sure. but toxic is right lets not start a flame war. what happened, happened.
     
  29. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    wow, 8O , that was all news to me:) except for ddwrt.
     
  30. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    yeah i am not supirsed at all. i dont know how one person has so many people that dont like him
     
  31. _Shorty

    _Shorty Network Guru Member

    why would a project feel compelled to remove all sveasoft code? Unless, of course, they just no longer wanted to use some specific pieces of code. But there's no reason a project couldn't use sveasoft's code if they wanted to...
     
  32. sdy_moscow

    sdy_moscow Network Guru Member

    Sveasoft - trying to do good things, they support is very good, BUT they are stay thinking that they are owners of all OPEN SOURCE CODE (OSC). If they use OSC and GNU licensing code. THEY MUST PUBLISHING THEY OWN CODE BASED ON IT. If they do not publishing it - they could not use OSC and GNU - it is THE LAW!
     
  33. joebloggs

    joebloggs Network Guru Member

    I think Sveasoft does have the right to charge money to cover the development costs, but from what I'm seeing and from listening to James Ewing at wireless tech radio, he is making a lot of profit from charging people for his firmware, which is really against the spirit of open source.


    http://www.wirelesstechradio.com/archives/archivesmonth.php?m=04&y=2005
     
  34. Xyse

    Xyse Network Guru Member

    Yeah, I must also add that their response to customers are near realtime.

    Register and posting with username similar to the one in sveasoft forum(that you paid) and see how fast they react to it. :)
     
  35. TheMunch8

    TheMunch8 Network Guru Member

    Its more of a statement then anything else. Its giving the finger to Sveasoft saying "What you created is not good enough for my firmware. I have decided to write the code over, and better.
     
  36. TheIndividual

    TheIndividual Network Guru Member

    I'm gonna give my opinion on this case and it may surprise a few people after Sveasoft's propaganda against me.

    Unlike others on this forum and in contrary to Sveasofts claims, it has never been nor will it ever be, my target to "bring down Sveasoft". My original motivation was to help out others when Sveasoft closed their forums and announced support was now to be paid for. I had no problem with that since the firmware was still free and redistribution was allowed due to the GPL. So I redistributed, it was just a small website that had the latest Alchemy version.

    Well I'm not gonna continue explaining myself because it would turn into a GPL discussion but let's just say Sveasoft didn't react nicely to the redistribution.

    It's not about their project, it's about how they treat other projects. It's not about them making money, it's about them not playing by the rules.

    The idea of Open Source is to share code, to port changes from another projects and incorporate it to your own. Of course Sveasoft is doing this, they use a lot of Open Source code written by other people, but they don't give it back to the community. After DD-WRT's release they did not release a single line of Alchemy code for 5 months, fearing that Brainslayer might include it in DD-WRT. There is no source code for Talisman although obviously it is based on Open Source code.

    So the target is not be to bring down Sveasoft but to convince them to play by the rules. If they would work together with other projects instead of making their own proprietary locked down firmware, everyone would be happy. Maybe Sveasoft would make less money if their firmware could be recompiled for free but we could all work together instead of against each other.

    They could charge for support, not for firmware. Charge for providing compiled binaries or for modules that are not based on Open Source code.

    Also, about not using Sveasoft's code: If you consider the history of Sveasoft's licensing position, it is not wise to use their code for an open source project. Here's a rough list from the early days until today, out of my head:
    - Satori: GPL project based on Linksys firmware, everybody was free to post in their forum, free to use firmware, free to make offspins
    - Alchemy: closed forum, only subscribers get binaries and source code, redistribution is punished (ban, 20$, harassment)
    - Later Alchemy: Switch to Apache license with condition that code may never be used in GPL projects (unless mere aggregation of code), redistribution of code not allowed even to subscribers, source code heavily delayed on purpose
    - Talisman: closed, Apache license, limited binary with copy protection, no source code until today

    You can see that Sveasoft has continously changed their policy to the worse. They have sent DMCA copyright violation notices to people hosting binaries or source code. If you would use their code in a firmware, you could never know when they send you or your webhost a nice letter. Even if their claims were not true, you'd have to deal with legal issues and harassment for using their code.

    This is why, in a nutshell, their code shouldn't be used in open source projects.

    Sorry for going into details to explain it. Please don't discuss the licensing issues here, Linksysinfo does not want this discussion in their forums and I feel I nearly crossed that line with this post.
    I just wanted to explain the issues other projects have with Sveasoft, not discuss if what they do is legal.
     
  37. _Shorty

    _Shorty Network Guru Member

    the code was GPL to begin with, can't change that
     
  38. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    come on respect the fourm rules no gpl...

    and you are right TheIndividual. finnaly someone tells it how it is. a lot of peple have a whole deal to thank you for all that you have done. and i would like to thank you for dd-wrt because with out the source brainslyer would not have written dd-wrt. and i rely on dd-wrt a whole a lot. dd-wrt has saved me a lot of money :D
     
  39. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    Ok I thank all who have given their views on this topic. i will be closing it now, (not burying it, howeve discussion of the GPL issues can be take up at the bsr forums.

    http://forum.bsr-clan.de/viewforum.php?f=12
     
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