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Wireless Driver Issues & Settings for N speeds

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by Toastman, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    I have update to latest build, 2492,3-nocat with wifi driver 5.100.138.9,
    with "CPU frequency" fix, Set by default, 480,240,120 by tre values.

    I have noticed more stable behave eg TX/RX Rate is more stable and shift between
    (65/150-65/150 mimo 1x1 40Mhz), eg mimo 1x1, 1x2, 2x1 and 2x2.
    Maby I wan't to see this good behave but it's wort to noticed that.
    When ther is no traffic RX-rates stays eg 1x1 mimo 20Mhz at 72Mbps and 1x1 mimo at
    40Mhz 150Mbps.

    How many of user press "Noise Floor (eth1) :-99 dBm" to see what realy noise floor
    is in theirs environment? Then we don't have correct S/N-value, quality.
    That could be a source to some problem, If that is used to calculate values used by
    driver. (Maby used by "Interference Mitigation") we don't know that.

    The best noise floor we can estimate is ~-92dBm and worst case ~-70dBm that give
    us 22dB variance. If we don't hit Noise button worst case can be -99dBm and -70dBm
    then we have 29dB variance.

    Is't any way to measure that in realtime, startup or every XX minutes?.

    regards
    kthaddock
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Probably not many ... I've forgotten about this myself! I'm so used to loading firmware, clearing Nvram, loading config files and looking at readings.

    I agree it should be used more frequently and needs to be checked for accuracy and reliability.

    Edit: I got some interesting results after using the Noise Floor button for both 2.4 & 5 ghz radios. My 2.4 radio started registering tx/rx rates of 300 and my N-clients switched from 5 ghz radio to 2.4 radio. I normally do not get a tx/rx rate of 300 on my 2.4 ghz radio, usually 150 or lower. Quality readings were slightly higher for N-clients this time using Eth1 but and remained about the same for g clients. These readings will change as clients come and go ...

    Basic Network
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7...NTExNy00Nzg0LWE1ZWYtY2UxOTRkZGVjN2Q4&hl=en_US

    Device List
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B7...N2EyZC00YzQ2LTgwMTUtYzBjMWY5MDAwNmRj&hl=en_US

    Pharma
     
  3. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "My 2.4 radio started registering tx/rx rates of 300 and my N-clients switched from 5 ghz radio to 2.4 radio."

    Which chipset in your radios? Laptop with Atheros in it connects at 300 on the 2.4 ghz channel. Intel N6230 won't. Atheros not dual mode, Intel is. Intel will connect at 300 on 5.4ghz channel.
     
  4. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    The laptop device registering at 300/300 on the 2.4 ghz channel in the link above is a Sony Vaio with a Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 (802.11a/b/g/n) wireless adapter. It will connect either on the 2.4 or 5 ghz radios, but will switch during the day depending on best conditions. I usually check and make sure I've alway got the latest Intel wireless drivers.

    Pharma
     
  5. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200"

    The 6230 will only connect at N speeds on the 5 ghz channel. I tired all kinds of things and could never get N speeds on the 2.4 ghz channel. Its stable and fast on the 5ghz channel. I'm impressed with the Atheros 9287 chipset. Going to be playing with a broadcom dual mode soon. The intel n-1030 is useless.

    I'm not 100% sure the N-6230 will actually connect at N speeds on 2.4 ghz channel. This is what Intel says about it:

    "Dual band Allows connectivity at 2.4 GHz to access older 802.11b/g networks and 5 GHz for higher speeds and greater network capacity."

    So its a little confusing. Intel's wifi connection utility "sees" N on the 2.4 ghz channel however. Gave up trying to get N connection and the E-3000 on the 2.4 ghz channel.

    Could be the router too. The E-4200 dual band is more substantial than the E-3000's.
     
  6. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    You're using the same wireless driver I am, and it seems your wireless adapter is more recent than mine so it should have the capability. All things given I'd rather have my N devices connect to the 5 ghz at tx/rx rates of 300 because that is the optimal solution, but if they (N devices) choose to connect to the 2.4 ghz at the same N speeds they are obviously following whatever algorithm they use to determine the best performance in a given circumstance.

    The major difference between our setups is I'm using a different Tomato driver (RT-N) and my wireless settings are different. It takes alot of time configuring everything to work the way you want as well as meeting any expectations you might have, and at this point I'm pretty much certain what the behavior of my wireless devices will be when I make minor adjustments to the router settings.
    Pharma
     
  7. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Its just odd that my other 2.4ghz N devices connect easily to the 2.4ghz channel at N speeds up to 300 mhz but the Intel won't. Even in N only mode and using 20mhz to limit band bonding for highest speeds.

    On the E3000 the 2.4 ghz channel is B/G/N and the 5 ghz channel shows A/N . I'm not sure how the E4200 is designed. There is a reason why its more expensive and one has to wonder if each of its channels is fully capable where the E3000 as a cheaper unit is not quite as robust.
     
  8. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    I thought that 150mbit was the max speed for 20mhz wide 2.4ghz, as that's the most I ever see on any of my devices. When I widen the band to 40mhz its the only time I see 300mbit. Aren't B/G strictly 2.4ghz and A is strictly 5ghz?
     
  9. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    1x1 mimo 20Mhz = 72mbit
    1x1 mimo 40Mhz = 150mbit
    2x2 mimo 20Mhz = 150mbit
    2x2 mimo 40Mhz = 300mbit
     
  10. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Sorry for taking the thread off subject. I do think a thread on the N protocols, etc., would be a worthwhile thread. There is much to learn about dual band and since it is becoming more and more popular probably other folks would benefit as well.

    I followed all suggestions here and still no N connection in 2.4 ghz for the N6230.

    http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/sb/CS-030709.htm

    Just found this answer regarding not connecting at N speeds from Intel wlan card to a Dlink router. Tomato only does 20 or 40, no "auto" setting for either.

    "Intel only allows binding of channels {149, 153}, {157,161} when using 40Mhz in the 2.4 band. Thats why Dlink put in the Auto 20/40 in the 2.4 range, so your Intel could connect at N at 20mhz even when other devices are connected at 40hz. Another words, no 300Mb for your Intel card. Sorry :-("

    So how do we relay that information on so that maybe we can see a "both" or an "auto" in Tomato?

    Does "Control Sideband" impact which channels are available for bonding? I'm not sure what channels 149, etc., are actually.
     
  11. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Found this. Not sure what impact it has on Intel driver channel selection for bonding in N modes.

    "What you're seeing is an effect of 40MHz channels and the N control sideband. When using 40MHz (dual-channel) N, the router adjusts the channel number to be the center of the 40MHz band. If the control sideband is on the lower channel, the actual channel passed to the driver is 2 higher than your selected channel."
     
  12. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Actually Tomato does offer "auto" for the 2.4 ghz channel width but it's not a documented feature ... if I set the channel to "Auto" and the width to "40" during the course of the day it will change automatically between a channel width 20 or 40. It's when it's at 40 that the N- speeds (300) appear for my N clients on the 2.4 ghz. When it at a width of 20 they appear upto a max of 150. This happens for both the laptop and the LED TV with build in wireless ... I guess you'd need to test it out ... my guess is you are not using "Auto" for the channel.

    I also have never used Intel's PROSet/Wireless Software, and opt for windows to handle it since it gives me more flexibility. Your laptop wireless adapter has config options for you to set the channel width for 2.4 & 5 ghz. I've attached screen below:

    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7PUq4QVe8MjODM4N2VkNTEtNjBiYi00M2RiLWFjNzktOGI4NTZmN2Q3Yjgw

    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7PUq4QVe8MjMDBkZTg1MDEtZWUwMS00MzYyLWJiOWUtMDZhYWI1ZjllNzE0

    http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wlan/sb/CS-030282.htm

    Pharma
     
  13. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "Your laptop wireless adapter has config options for you to set the channel width for 2.4 & 5 ghz."

    Yes, I know.

    I will play with the Auto thing. I prefer to set a channel to avoid any interference with surrounding wireless systems. I pick one after doing a scan so I get a clean one.

    Looks like with the Intel driver it would be nice to be able to set one of the 2 channels they use and then 20/40 to Auto.

    Given the way the Atheros chipset and the Netgear N usb dongle connect easily and at high N speeds on the 2.4 channel really seems to me to be more about the way Intel has implemented the 2.4 ghz channel in their wlan devices.
     
  14. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    No matter what I try no N connection from Intel 6230 on 2.4ghz channel.
     
  15. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Are you using RT or RT-N driver?
     
  16. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    RT

    RT-N driver has issues with WDS mode router to router communication.
     
  17. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Tried RT-N version, same results. Will not connect in N protocol even when setting N protocol manually for 2.4 ghz channel. Following Intel's suggestions result with not being able to make any connection in 2.4 ghz. Its as if N isn't even there to the Centrino 6230.
     
  18. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    7483.2 or 7492.4 considered more stable? I just want to set it and forget it for now.

    Any recommendations on 802.11n preamble mode: Greenfield or GF-BRCM or Auto? I'm using 2.4ghz N only.
     
  19. heuristik

    heuristik Networkin' Nut Member

    my fun times with intel wifi nics have identified the following results:

    1) if you are looking to use it, verify that you actually have a 5GHz option. the new WiFi Link 1000's that are in many consumer laptops just hitting the market are 2.4 GHz only.
    2) The intel wifi adapters appear to work more efficiently with the full software package installed. This means adding the wifi link package, and keeping it disabled (unless you want the PAN feature). I get a bump from 150 to 243 Mbps reading with the full complement of sw.
    3) Enable WLAN Auto interference mitigation and frame burst. disable afterburner. Disable APSD mode, it's not your friend if you have recent Intel WiFi.
    4) on the nic itself, here are the intel recommended settings:

    Property Value
    802.11n channel width for band 2.4 Auto (not in 20 MHz only)
    802.11n channel width for band 5.2 Auto (not in 20 MHz only)
    802.11n mode Enabled
    Fat channel intolerant Disabled
    Roaming aggressiveness Medium (or less)
    Throughput enhancement Disabled
    Transmit power Highest
    Wireless mode 802.11a/b/g
    • On the wireless router check the following options:
    Property Value
    Auto channel scan Enable
    802.11 mode Use 802.11n only
    Channel width 40MHz

    Note WEP and WPA-TKIP are not compatible with 802.11n.

    Note Data rate will not exceed 54 Mbps when WEP or TKIP encryption is configured.
     
  20. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "and frame burst"

    I have that disabled. When setting the router, E3000, to N only on the 2.4 ghz channel the 6230 will not connect. Only N connection it will do is to the 5 ghz channel.
     
  21. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Heuristek,
    Thanks for chiming in and displaying your settings.
    Interesting!

    Mine is set to the default, so may not matter.
    @jsmiddleton
    Try changing your 5 ghz channels and saving the settings to see if any of your clients move over to the 2.4. A reboot (router) is not necessary but I've found sometimes helps.
     
  22. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    I've given the 5 ghz and the 2.4 ghz channels separate SSID's so I can isolate which channel is connecting at what protocol. I can move the Intel 6230 client to the 2.4ghz channel but it only connects at G speed.

    I keep coming back to the stable and straight forward way the Atheros based and whatever Netgear's is connect on the 2.4ghz channel. The Atheros connects at 300 on the 2.4 ghz channel. Not sure what's in one of the clients Sony 14 inch Vaio but it connects without any fooling around at 150. I'll find out later what's in it.

    I've gone back to all channels with same SSID so its simpler for all clients. The Intel 6230 connects at 300 BUT I had to tell its driver "prefer 5.2 ghz channel". If I let it decided in "Auto" it will connect on the 2.4 ghz channel at G speeds.

    Sony Vaio has Atheros AR9285 and it is designed to go up to 150 on 2.4 channel. Which is does simply. The Fujitsu has Atheros AR 9287 which is designed to go up to 300mbs on the 2.4ghz channel which it does simply.
     
  23. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    My 2.4 & 5 ghz radios are set to theSSID, so might be the key!
    Basically in my setup I either set both radio channels to "Auto" or only one to "Auto", or both to specific channels. The width on both is set to 40. Over the course of the day(s) as conditions change you'll should see the clients choosing what is best for optimal performance.
     
  24. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "My 2.4 & 5 ghz radios are set to theSSID, so might be the key!"

    Not sure what you mean.
     
  25. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Mis-read your statement above when you said the Intel connected at 300 (5ghz) - thought you got it on 2.4 ghz!
     
  26. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    I've also done all the "other" stuff recommended like turning off bluetooth amp, etc.

    It seems more likely to me Intel has done something with the 2.4ghz part of the driver to severely limit 2.4ghz N connections. There own support information is very negative of N on 2.4 ghz.
     
  27. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    What is the exact model of your card? There are two 6230 Intel cards, 62230ANHMW and 62230AGHRU. One supports N and one does not.
     
  28. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    not sure but it supports N. Connects at 300 on 5.4ghz channel just fine.
     
  29. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    What version Intel drivers are you using? I have 14.2.0.10 with mine. In device manager you did change the option "802.11n Channel Width for band 2.4" to "Auto", as it defaults to "20Mhz only". Then in tomato you have to tell tomato to use 40mhz rather than auto.
     
  30. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    14.2.0.10

    Yes, have set all those things.

    What router do you have and what firmware version are you using bucher....

    And I've tried it with no security in play just to make sure. And no difference.
     
  31. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "Then in tomato you have to tell tomato to use 40mhz rather than auto."

    According to Intel and Pharma you set channel to "Auto" and width to 40. That is suppose to allow the Intel driver to negotiate back and forth between 40 and 20mhz.

    I think the bigger question is why do we have to do any of this? If other companies have figured out how to make N work on 2.4 channel easily and reliably this is clearly an Intel issue. If Atheros made a wlan card with built in bluetooth that did N protocol, single or dual band, I'd be putting it in the Dell laptop with the Intel N6230.
     
  32. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    By it's nature 2.4ghz is too crowded normally for 40mhz, so Intel defaults 2.4ghz operation to 20mhz width.
     
  33. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    I've also tried bluetooth coexistence off and on in both routers.
     
  34. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "By it's nature 2.4ghz is too crowded normally"

    All well and good except I'm looking at 150 and 300 connections with other companies devices. IF the 2.4 ghz channel is so crowded as to make N protocols unreliable in 2.4ghz range, seems those other companies have figured it out....
     
  35. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    I have the Intel 6200 card and E2000 router with 7492.4
     
  36. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    The 6200's don't have bluetooth.
     
  37. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    I believe it's working for people here that have similar/same Intel wireless hardware, so that is unlikely. Just keep in mind it is not the optimal solution to have a wireless N client using the 2.4 radio at 300 tx/rx -- but it is "pretty cool". :)
     
  38. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Actually a quick search of the web on N connection issues and the Intel Centrino's gives you more results than you have time to read.

    So it isn't working very well for many folks.

    If my other N 2.4ghz devices were having same issues I'd be off base.
     
  39. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    People "here" -- in the forum. On the good note at least your other devices seem to work.
     
  40. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Sorry Pharm as I have yet to see a significant number of people on this forum pipe in and say they have the Intel Centrino cards, models as we've discussed, who say N is working great for 2.4ghz channels. There have only been a few folks with Intel cards involved in the discussion. A quick search of this forum on Centrino shows folks here have issues.

    Given the very large number of threads across the web in support forums just like this who have connection issues with the Intel Centrino N cards I'd say the conclusion Intel has some issues is fairly sane.
     
  41. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    "N" working on a 2.4 ghz is not optimal, everyone knows that. I doubt you will see a significant number piping in this thread because perhaps they are satisfied with what they have, whether or not they can get max "N" speeds (300) on their 2.4 radio. Those who have come forward in this thread who have the same/similar wireless adapter and have it working tried to assist but have not been able to resolve your problem. While unfortunate, those who have this capability are extremely happy whether or not we continue to use it.

    Hopefully you will be able to resolve your issue, but nothing is wrong with just being happy with what you have.

    G'luck!
     
  42. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "nothing is wrong with just being happy with what you have."

    You mean like we've all stayed with Linksys firmware on our routers?
     
  43. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    One of the biggest problems with N wireless is that, from an engineering point of view, it simply doesn't coexist happily with older G and B clients. When N draft spec was being drawn up, the engineers pointed this out and insisted that N should not be allowed on the 2.4GHz band because there are not enough channels to keep them separated, and the result would be that N signals will wipe out the others on the channel. One leading manufacturer even gained a reputation for this!

    [In fact some time ago there was a shopping mall here with a huge IT department, many shops were demonstrating N routers. The result was pandemonium. They found they couldn't sell any because the performance was appalling due to the interference. Worse, all the older G routers got totally wiped out. Eventually, some gaming/internet shops insisted the management ban the use of N wireless in the mall because most of their clients were G and they had lost a lot of business. The management finally did so because their own offices began to complain their wireless connected laptops didn't work well any more, and they realized what the problem was.]

    Anyway, the engineers totally lost the battle against the marketing people and it was decided to allow N on 2.4GHz. Then there was a hasty move to bodge some extra stuff into the firmware to make N routers back off if G were detected on the channel. So now if a G router's beacon is detected, no matter that it may be very weak and poses no threat, the router may just refuse to work with "N" when being set up (because it immediately detects G activity) and/or intermittently reverts to G speeds, and the reason may not always be apparent to the user. As for dual channel, that was an even worse problem. Add to that, different manufacturers implement their own protective measures in different ways.

    Anyway, it seems that Intel, to give them credit, were firmly opposed to the idea of N being allowed to stomp all over the 2.4GHz band and strictly implemented these various measures to prevent it. I am not certain whether these were ever intentionally removed, some of these may still be in place. The evolution of Intel wireless after that seems to be little documented but maybe this explains the difference between Intel and other clients. But personally, I really dislike Intel wireless. My condominiums use AP's at "G" speeds ("N" is useless where many AP's have to coexist in a small space) and Intel cards are still the biggest headache. It isn't just their "N" operability, it's just about everything :(

    Trying to evaluate this stuff with various built in measures to detect and coexist with radar, bluetooth, video, cookers, baby alarmds, security cameras, and now "N" and dual-channel "N" bonding, may well be a hopeless task. Every one of us has different conditions and even those vary from minute to minute. Then there's the multitude of people walking past with wifi enabled phones attempting to connect to something ....
     
  44. MaX PL

    MaX PL Networkin' Nut Member

    so after nearly 3 weeks of uptime with 83.2, last night it started to behave strangely. all my clients were running at about a fifth of their speed with much worse signal quality all around. so i thought that perhaps i was getting some interference from somewhere as that sometimes happens and went to sleep. same thing this morning though. so i switch over to channel 11 and its good, and then back to 6 again and its good. memory usage and cpu both looked steady as usual.
    what's the explanation for this? anyone?
    i'll likely update to a newer build if it happens again.
     
  45. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "Intel, to give them credit, were firmly opposed to the idea of N being allowed to stomp all over the 2.4GHz band"

    And that is fine. But Intel needs to make it clear that if you are trying to connect on 2.4 ghz with N protocol you are unlikely to do so unless you are doing so in a near perfect context according to their very limited 2.4 ghz scheme.

    The idea that pharma tried to present that most folks with intel centrino N wlan cards are connecting at N protocol with 2.4 ghz channel is simply untrue. Whether he likes my saying so or not is irrelevant. A quick search of any credible web sites including laptop maker's support forums like Dell reveal many many folks with issues unless they have a dual band card and a dual band router. 5 ghz is fine.

    Intel and then makers who use Intel cards and pass along Intel's marketing language are jive talking when it comes to N support. And that is not ok.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W42rMjYWlk

    "I really dislike Intel wireless"

    I have come to dislike them as well.
     
  46. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Just updated the Sony laptop's wireless G card to the new Broadcom dual mode card. Connects at 300mhz with absolutely no messing around. The Dell with the Intel Centrino N6230 still requires manually resetting it so it will negotiate to 300mhz otherwise it connects at 54G. Next time I have the Dell to play with, which may be this evening, I am going to setup the WDS network to be ethernet bridge mode and see if the WDS stuff is telling the Intel driver that N channels are unavailable.
     
  47. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Finally have Intel Centrino N6230 connecting reliably at N speeds. Had to enable WMM on each channel in both routers. Once did that, speed went right to 300.

    Go figure.....

    Totally not necessary for broadcom, atheros and Netgear N150 USB mini-dongle.
     
  48. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

  49. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Thanks for finding that article bucher. Still puzzling as to why the other "certified" WLAN cards did not need WMM to be "On" to connect at the higher N speeds.

    Wondering since now that we know what settings need to be "On" in the router for Intel Centrino cards if some kind of simple note could be added to the firmware regarding such?
     
  50. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Jim, could you test to see if it automatically is enabled by Tomato when set to "auto" ? (This is the usual default). One would assume that is it's purpose. Maybe it doesn't do what it should?
     
  51. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Planning on doing so first chance I get. Laptop with N6230 in it is my daughter's and currently it is back at college. She'll be around during Christmas break and I will test it. I can tell you APSD Enabled prevents my Netgear N150 from connecting. However WMM Auto does not impact it or the other N WLAN cards negatively. Neither did "On". My only thought about "Auto" is in the connection negotiation if in the looking for it by the Intel card the firmware sets it to "On" it should work fine. But if the Intel driver is looking for it to be "On" to begin with and what "Auto" means is WMM is "Off" until something wakes it up, that might be problematic.

    If that makes any sense.
     
  52. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Merry Christmas.

    FYI: When set to Auto my E3000 changes the WMM setting to Enable.
     
  53. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Tried it several ways, individual channels, etc., and always "Auto" flips to "Enable".
     
  54. hawkmat

    hawkmat Networkin' Nut Member

    A few days ago Asus released a new firmware for the RT-N16. Firmware 3.0.0.3.78. It looks like the firmware that they will be using with new RT-N66U and it weighs in at 18MB. I looked though the logs and they use RT-N driver 5.100.138.9 for ethernet and wireless. There is also a reference to Tomato in the log. The New RT-N66U uses the 5.100.138.9 driver too.
     
  55. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Oh dear. This wireless driver is trouble :) Unless they have some parameters we aren't aware of to make it work properly . But it's big and slow as used in RT-N firmware. Strange that they would use it for the RT-N16.
     
  56. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Added for continuity:

     
  57. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    Seems that a new wireless driver is out in WNDR4500 router.
    Code:
    wl ver
    5.100 RC121.0
    wl0: Aug 25 2011 17:35:36 version 5.100.138.903
    
     
  58. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    I'm using a new E3000
    I have been having lots of variation in my throughput to a laptop and smartphones. Tried setting "N-only" and it didn't seem to help. I live in a suburban setting so there are a few neighboring 2.4ghz networks (Inssider sees about 6-8 different ones in the distance, generally around -85db while mine is -60 or -50.)

    I can't seem to get wireless throughput any higher than 12-14 mbps even though my wired connection is 21-23.

    Is there any reason I should reflash to a Toastman or Shibby or something? I would assume that the underlying guts are the same so I don't want to be reflashing firmware just to find the same thing. Maybe it's just our interference here but even if I'm 5 feet away from the router the speeds are still pretty low. I'm curious about the comment re: automatic QOS limiting bandwidth or something like that.
     
  59. xE4GL3k

    xE4GL3k Networkin' Nut Member

    Happy new year guys. I m totally rookie here, never flashed tomato firmware before, and I have one quick question though.

    I just bought E3000. Since it's dual-band, does that mean that I should download RT-N version? Thank you so much
     
  60. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    Hi,
    Welcome to the forum. If you start at the first post you should see info regarding which firmware to download. For your model you'll find the RT version is probably best. RT-N is primarily for E4200's which require a differently configured driver to enable 5Ghz.

    Pharma
     
  61. xE4GL3k

    xE4GL3k Networkin' Nut Member

    Thank you Pharma. Actually, I read the guide about toastman's build, and I got a little confused about RT and RT-N. Cuz I thought E3000 is dual-band, which supports 5Ghz radio. Also, I noticed in the RT-N folder, there are bin files for E3000 also.
    I'm not so sure, if I flash RT firmware, E3000 still can use 5Ghz radio?
     
  62. Catalin

    Catalin Addicted to LI Member

    RT works with E3000 but you won't have the 5GHz band.
    RT-N is recommended if you need the 5GHz functionality.
     
  63. xE4GL3k

    xE4GL3k Networkin' Nut Member

    Thanks, Catalin. That helps.
     
  64. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    RT works with E3000 but you won't have the 5GHz band.
    RT-N is recommended if you need the 5GHz functionality.
    ___________________

    Sorry but that is incorrect. RT versions work just fine for both bands for the E3000. The ONLY router that needs "special" version for dual band is the E4200.

    RT-N versions are in fact not recommended for the E3000's as the RT versions are more stable on the E3000, and similar equipment, routers. RT-N versions work however the RT versions seem to be more stable.

    Although as noted in a previous post there is apparently a new wireless driver out. We will probably see it in the next weeks or so in one of the Tomato versions. If it is stable and considered an "RT-N" version then the current assessment of the two versions will of course change. But for now RT versions most stable version for the E3000.
     
  65. Catalin

    Catalin Addicted to LI Member

    You are probably right, but I just said what Toastman wrote here (http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/toastman-firmware-build-guide.36113/ )

     
  66. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Yes, the E4200 as noted.

    This has been discussed many times.
     
  67. Catalin

    Catalin Addicted to LI Member

    It has been discussed because is not clear. E3000 as well as E4200 is part of the "Linksys E Series", and at the same time E3000 is a dual band MIPSR2 router so...
     
  68. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Sorry but it has been discussed and it is clear. Pharma made it clear already a few post before your post in this thread, post 96. Just because it is not clear to you does not mean it has not been made clear. It has been discussed many many times. You being confused does not mean the information has not been thoroughly discussed.

    A simple search of any of the Toastman's firmware threads will show you just how many times this matter has been addressed.
     
  69. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    E3000=RT
    E4200=RT-N
    /end discussion
     
  70. Catalin

    Catalin Addicted to LI Member

    Since RT-N is apparently useful only for the E4200 as of now, it would have been more clear to replace RT-N with RT-E4200. That's my point.
     
  71. gschlact

    gschlact Network Guru Member

    Just to add to my post from a few above...
    EDIT-ADD: I have tried a myriad of settings to no avail trying to get N (or Auto) to be equal to or better than G only mode. TOshiba Satellite A665 -S6065 using REaltek 8191SE v2020.4.620.2011 6/20/2011 drivers.
    Hogan773 - it seems that you might be in a similar boat as myself. Do you have devices that do demonstrate the potentially higher wireless speed like I do?
     
  72. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    When you make the firmwares, you can name them whatever you want. ;)
     
  73. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "RT-N is apparently useful only for the E4200"

    "E3000=RT
    E4200=RT-N"

    Those are also not the case. RT-N can be used on the E3000's. For some folks it works fine. I found the RT versions to be more stable on my E3000's than the RT-N's. But that is not a universal experience. Some folks prefer RT-N on the E3000's. For me the RT-N versions work in terms of connections, through-put, etc., for the E3000's. Only thing that wasn't "right" is the router to router speed reporting. But RT-N is quite useful on the E3000's.

    RT-N version is not required for 5ghz to work on the E3000's as it is for the E4200's. That does not mean the RT-N's are not useful on the E3000's.

    E3000=RT and RT-N versions
    E4200=RT-N versions for both channels, RT versions if you only want 2.4ghz channel (why someone would want that is unclear).

    The reason this gets discussed frequently is folks post inaccurate information that confuses others. Toastman has posted accurate information about the versions and use on E3000's and E4200's several times.
     
  74. Victek

    Victek Network Guru Member

    Hogan773, download one ISO file by using the wired connection, then make the same test using wireless connection, then compare, why? Just to test PCI bus in your laptop.
    Some slow transfer is not wireless issue, computer hardware is also responsible... I have an Intel 6300 Ultimate 3T3R in my notebook and I get better transfer with an USB Realtek 2570. Broadcom is not the best wireless solution...
     
  75. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    Then I can confuse you a bit, I'm using RT-N on a ASUS RT-N16 unit. Best performance ever !!!
     
  76. Engineer

    Engineer Network Guru Member

    Since you have one with RT-N and one with what looks like Shibby's AIO Version 083, is the RT-N that much better? Also, why? What makes it better? Signal? Stability?

    Thanks in advance! ;)
     
  77. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    Umm no - unfortunately the fastest I can get on Speedtest is about 16-17 Mbps on a good day, sometimes its around 11-12. Our iPhone 4S can also get to 17-18 Mbps many times. My Samsung Galaxy S1 is generally 9-12.

    What I don't know is whether Speedtest is affecting things. Speedtest is generally very steady at 20-23 through the main PC which is wired ethernet thru the router (and no faster directly wired so the router isn't slowing the wired)

    I tried last night to transfer a file from the desktop to the laptop and got about 5 MB/sec which I guess is 40 Mbps. At the time the connection was showing 144Mbps and the router was 5 feet from the laptop.

    Perhaps I am just asking too much of a wireless connection!
     
  78. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    What is faster than Broadcom (and can I do Tomato on it?)
     
  79. xE4GL3k

    xE4GL3k Networkin' Nut Member

    Thank you, Middleton. I really appreciate your explanation. Guess I probably should flash RT for now, since it's more stable.
     
  80. xE4GL3k

    xE4GL3k Networkin' Nut Member

    So you did try both version, and feel RT-N gives better performance?
     
  81. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hey Kthaddock i have an RT-N16 using , you really mean it runs fine wit RT-N ?
     
  82. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    Hi all
    Yes I have two RT-N16 with Toastman which I use and Shibby which 3 playing 24/7 kids using, with Bw limiter, opendns and other functions running.
    In my case there is one lap with Atheros, one PC with cisco wusb600n, one android and one htc.
    Wifi performance up/down is when I messure ~9-10 MBps (~72 - 80 mbps) lap and pc.
    Most problem comes from Intels crappy wifi cards/dongels and cause alot of trouble. And to mention WMM-support is a big issue to trouble, WMM is basically Qos to voice and movie streaming and part of N-mode spec. Power savings in all forms can cuse alot of trouble.
    I'm aware of there is tons of circumstances that can affect performance and stability.
    In Tostmans RT-N build there is same version of wifi driver that ASUS ships with theirs program, RT-N66 have newer drive.

    I have used 1.28.2493-nocat since Toastman relesed it 18/12-11 and Shibbys 083V-aio since 5/12-11 without any trouble .

    Try what may function for you, test builds with same minimum of settings and use what suits your needs.

    kthaddock
     
  83. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hi, thx a lot for the full info, i'll test the RT-N on my RT-N16 and will be back with my coments.
    Rgds.
    mito
     
  84. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "Most problem comes from Intels crappy wifi cards/dongels and cause alot of trouble. And to mention WMM-support is a big issue to trouble, WMM is basically Qos to voice and movie streaming and part of N-mode spec. Power savings in all forms can cuse alot of trouble."

    Amen to that....
     
  85. kthaddock

    kthaddock Network Guru Member

    The WMM Checklist

    To take advantage of WWM functionality in a Wi-Fi network, three requirements have to be met:

    1. the access point is Wi-Fi CERTIFIED for WMM and has WMM enabled;
    2. the client (device) that the application is running on must be Wi-Fi CERTIFIED for WMM; and
    3. the source application supports WMM. [emphasis mine]
     
  86. gschlact

    gschlact Network Guru Member

    Hogan - it would be interesting to know whether you get a different rate on your "slower" pc's when you set AUTO, N Only, and G only?

    In my case with Everything being the same, AUTO and N mode makes the laptop with the latest REaltek drivers get about 3.5mbps, where as G only lets it get ~14mbps in same location on 2.4ghz. I have tried closer and further and get same results?

    VIC - what ideas do you have? It would appear that it is almost reverting to B mode speeds if in Auto or N on the router AP.

    thanks.
    Guy
     
  87. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hi guys, same to me, i'm on RT-N16 with v1.28.7493 MIPSR2-Toastman-RT K26 USB Ext and the only way to get N speeds is Mode:N , Channel: Auto , Channel Width: 40Mhz and Upper, needles to say tha i only get max 144Mbps with an Intel 4965 agn mini card.
    Any change i make to channel or Lower sideband, speeds come down to B speeds, always.
    Other than that router and firmware runs great but no change allowed.
    Rgds, Salu2,
    mito
     
  88. gschlact

    gschlact Network Guru Member

    Mito,
    What happens if you use 20mhz band instead of 40mhz?

    My previous Toastman version of firmware did not display this behavior.
    Guy
     
  89. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    Huhhh, strange. In MY case it is almost the opposite. If I move channel width to 40 it really screws up my speeds - like there is too much interference and widening the path makes it worse. My better setting is to leave it on 20mhz only and then just try to select whatever channel is least populated by my freakin neighbors and their millions of 2WIRE330s (what are those anyway - wireless cable boxes or something?)

    I just leave it on Auto.

    If I go to N-only, I don't see any pickup in speed, and then I wouldn't be able to use an existing WRT54GL in the basement as a wireless ethernet bridge. Believe me I've tested many a time with nothing else powered on but N-capable things to see if "N-only" can give me those speeds.

    I think I'm just coming to the conclusion that no matter how fancy is my router, I have enough background noise around here to limit my actual throughput to something a little less than I dreamed I'd get by upgrading to an N-router. Its still a little faster than my old 54GL, just not as MUCH faster than I thought it'd be. Glad I got E3000 as an Xmas present and didn't shell out big bucks for a fancy new $180 N-router or something.
     
  90. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Guy,
    Thx for your tip.
    Just tested regarding you question.
    At 20Mhz i have less range and is more difficult to reach all corners at home, and choosing channel 9 that is less crouded, speed falls 40% aprox, so i prefer to go back to 40mhz and Auto channel but always it autoselects 8 channel.

    By te way & off topic, RT-N16 is a great machine with two radios but only 2.4 Ghz used, is somebody known working in a 5 Ghz radio driver for it? It would be fantastic! If so, my crappy Intel 4965 card would get 300Mbps, as it get with my office WRT600N @ 5Ghz and almost no intereferense close by.
    Rgds.
    mito
     
  91. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    So I wonder if I've been chasing my tail all along measuring speeds between router and laptop and blaming the router E3000 for not living up to performance (or blaming general level of competing networks from my suburban neighbors). Maybe it is also partly or mostly the "Intel WifiLink 1000" in my Acer laptop (notwithstanding the fact that it has "SignalUP" technology:rolleyes:.

    I sort of like the clean effect of not having a USB dongle sticking out the side, especially with a little antenna popping up from it. Any views on whether there are PCMCIA cards that I could replace for the Intel 1000 that could give me significantly better performance? Or is there an inherent issue of the PCMCIA just not getting as good of a signal vs something actually hanging off the machine?
     
  92. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    That adapter is a 2x1 meaning your limited to 144/72 on 2.4ghz 20mhz width.
     
  93. mito

    mito LI Guru Member

    Hi All, yesterday uploaded RT-N ...2493 on my RT-N16 and unfortunatelly my crappy Intel 4965 card didn't got connected ever, unchecked WMM, unchecked QOS, used G only and else, but no way. Only good thing was that wifi signal was stronger than with RT, is there any tip to use to make 4965 card better?
    Thx a lot.
    mito
     
  94. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    Right - it does show (sometimes) connecting at 144 if I'm sitting right beside the router, but it can also jump down to 72 or 108 or something. 40mhz width makes it worse. But actual throughput according to Speedtest is still 11-14 Mbps while my internet wired connection is 20-23. I would think that a properly working WAN connection could at least get close to the same 20-23 Mbps according to Speedtest. Do you think that getting a different laptop card will do the trick? If I have E3000 router is it best to buy a Linksys adapter with Broadcom chips or can I do Atheros or any others too?
     
  95. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    I picked up a refurbed Intel 6200 card for pretty cheap on newegg that seems be working just fine for me.
     
  96. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    Sorry for being a newb on this but a couple questions:

    my E3000 has "3 antennas each for 2.4ghz and 5ghz" so does that mean my current Intel 1000 which you say is 2x1 is using 2 antennas to receive and 1 to transmit? And the E3000 could be transmitting and receiving up to 3 separate antennas (is that what they mean when they say "streams"?) Or does 2x1 not even refer to the number of antennas on the adapter?

    If I buy a "2x2" adapter then my theoretical speed should go up? or does the first "2" still mean 144 down and the addition of the second "2" vs 1 means 144 up? Just trying to figure out if I need to get a "3x3" adapter to notice any performance change vs WifiLink 1000.

    If I get a PCI card that shows external antennas on it do I just detach those and then attach the "lead wires" from the laptop to those screws? like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166067. Or is this not gonna fit at all.

    It doesn't even seem like Linksys makes lots of adapters at this point, at least not on Newegg. I also can't find many laptop cards and none made by Intel......maybe I'm looking in the wrong place http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=34&name=Laptop-Networking
     
  97. bucher

    bucher Networkin' Nut Member

    Look into MIMO a little more for further clarification. All I know is that my wife's adapter is a 1x1 and in 2.4ghz 20mhz width she connects at 72/72. My card is a 2x2 and connects at 144/144.
     
  98. pharma

    pharma Network Guru Member

    @Hogan773,

    Read some of the user "feedback" comments at Newegg to see what you can expect. Users there report getting 300mbps.
     
  99. Hogan773

    Hogan773 Networkin' Nut Member

    I've been reading all afternoon. Seems there really are just a couple mini-PCI solutions - various forms of Intel or Atheros. Some threads implied that Atheros was faster but I also read someone who said that E3000s specifically COULDN'T CONNECT to Atheros (at least with stock FW).

    There is then the question of 2x2 or 3x3. I will look tonight but I assume my laptop has 2 antennas. So I could buy a 2x2 card, or buy a 3x3 card and then ADD AN ANTENNA which would require opening the LCD panel.

    Am I correct in saying that the E3000 is actually only a 2x2 router even though it has 3 antennas (I assume the 3rd is the "diversity antenna" for MIMO operation) whereas if I wanted "real 3x3 = 450mbps" then I'd need an E4200 or equivalent?

    The answer to this would help me narrow down the search so I can just look for 2x2 Intels like a 6200 or 6230 or something.
     
  100. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    I've never seen any thing that indicates the E3000 will go beyond 300mbs. It sounds like you are connecting at 20mhz however and not 40. At 40 I connect at 300.....
     

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