Neuf Trio 3D Modem - help with QOS

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by Zodler, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    I have a problem. My TV comes with my DSL. So when the TV is off I am at 1000 KB/s but when its on, my internet is at 700KB/s. Around 300 KB/s goes for the TV. So how can I have an effective QOS when my max is variable? What should I put in the max? If I put it at around 700, it would be a waste when my TV is off.

    I have tried both Shibby and Toastman firmwares. They are different in their inbound class limits. Toastman's has a range (2 values) for each class and Shibby has only one value. which one works better?
  2. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Two ranges for inbound is better, so use Toastman. But are you sure you chose a recent shibby version? I was under the impression that the QoS-system was updated in both fimwares...

    As for your TV:
    How is your TV connected? Is there a special device from your ISP that you connect the TV and your normal router to so that your TV always gets 300KB or is your TV connected to your normal router running Tomato?

    Another condition is: for QoS to manage this, you would need to now the protocol or even ports your TV uses.
  3. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    I have tomato-K26USB-1.28.RT-N5x-MIPSR2-102-AIO-64K.trx on Asus RT-N66U and its one value for inbounds.

    I have this ADSL modem, Neuf Trio 3D

    The TV output is the RED line connected directly to a TV receiver. The Blue output is Internet and is connected to my router. I think the best scenario would be to output both Internet and TV into WAN of my router so the firmware manage the speeds.

    I was only available to output the TV into one of my LAN ports and use it as a switch to pass the video but in that case the video datarate doesn't show in WAN of course. If I do that, does Tomato still consider the TV datarate and manage it in QOS or it should only pass by WAN for it to work?

    I'm still not sure if its possible to output both TV and Internet through one port on this device. If it was possible I read that I had to turn on the Multicast IGMP proxy to make it work but I kind of feel, Red gives only TV and Blue only Internet. Any thoughts?
  4. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    First of all, I googled a bit and found out that this Neuf box can be used for VoIP as well. Do you use this box for VoIP with your normal telephone?

    I don't know what you meant by outputting "TV into one of my LAN ports". I can only tell you what Tomato's QoS needs to work properly: one of the ports on the Neuf box needs to ouput the _whole_ Internet connection. The IGMP traffic needs to be included in what Tomato sees.

    I have no experience with IGMP Proxy. But first things first: check whether you can output the whole internet connection over one port.
  5. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    Yes the VOIP telephone is connected to the Green output. Lets forget the telephone for the moment.

    Something came to my mind, what if I use a switch and connect red and blue to that and output that to the WAN of my router?

    What I meant was that I connected the RED TV cable to one of my router LAN ports and used another LAN on the same router to output to the TV receiver. That way it works but I lose 2 Lan ports on my router and its working as a simple switch for the TV data.

    So am I correct to say that for the QOS to work properly, all data should pass through WAN first? Data passing in and out (LAN1 and LAN2 on the router for example) like a simple switch is not counted?
  6. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Don't leave the VoIP telephone out of the equation! As I see it, you directly connect your telephone to the Neuf box which means that if you pass your whole internet connection to your Tomato router your telephone won't work anymore!

    I guess it would be possible to put the TV and Internet ports on a switch and connect the router, too. The question is, what the internet traffic looks like. If this traffic is already plain "LAN" traffic (meaning it's not something encapsulated like PPPoE) then there might be a chance for your router to do QoS. But I don't think Tomato's QoS has been tested with this scenario, meaning it only works on ppp0 and not some ethernet interface. I'm not entirely sure. You would have to check what the Neuf Box gives your router and in a second step if Tomato does QoS on its WAN port which has been configured to be an LAN port.

    Apart from that, you still won't be able to use your telephone.
  7. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    IT WORKS! I mean here is what I did. I did my scenario. Used a switch and connected TV and Internet to it and it goes out to WAN of my router. When I did this the TV still didn't work.

    I had to go to Advanced-Firewall-Multicast and Enable IGMPproxy. As soon as I did this the TV started to work.

    Now here are some interesting things and since I don't know anything about network I ask it here.
    When I go to Bandwidth Real-Time WAN. I can see all my data flow graph (Internet + TV). If I turn on the TV I can well see the graph jump to around 300 KB/s.

    The strange thing (or not strange since I don't know anything) is that when I go to the IP Traffic graphs, there I don't see the TV flow. I use the IP Traffic graphs a lot because you can see the traffic per IP.

    So I can assume that Multicast IGMPproxy is the reason I don't see it in the IP traffic. Is that right? Why do I see the TV trafic in the WAN graph but not in the IP addresses Graphs? So does the QOS include the TV now?
  8. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    OK I digg a little deeper. I went to QOS graphs. There I see
    Connections Distribution
    Unclassified 48 70.59%

    Proto Source S Port Destination D Port Class Rule Bytes Out Bytes In
    UDP 65000 5000 Unclassified 0 374.56 MB

    The source address is and my network is so that's why I don't see the graph in the ip addresses because its not the same as my network. I still don't understand what address that Is that the IP of my TV receiver?
  9. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    OK I found out that my TV receiver does actually show up in the IP addresses Graphs. I checked the MAC addresses and it is
    br0 00:04:30:4A:91:94

    But as I said when I go to the trafic graph I see no data flow! But as I said previously the data flow is present in the QOS data as for source!
    Proto Source S Port Destination D Port Class Rule Bytes Out Bytes In
    UDP 65000 5000 Unclassified 0 374.56 MB
  10. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    What's with your telephone?

    You are really not helping a lot... Please describe what you did and don't post something every few minutes.

    Did you connect TV and Internet to a switch, then added the router and connected your TV receiver with your Tomato router? Can you actually watch TV like this?

    Take a look at Basic/Network, which "Type" is your connection?

    Take a look at Status/Overview, what's the Gateway's IP address? You don't have to past full IP addresses here. Just post the first two octets and that's enough (e.g. 123.123.x.x).
  11. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    Sorry I don't understand why you are asking the same questions again. Please read my posts. I already answered all your questions.

    I am careful about posting. What I posted every few minutes as you say, were all new and useful necessary information.

    I actually advanced a lot. You are not reading the posts carefully. I already said that I got it to work with the switch and Enabled IGMPproxy. I already explained it all so I will not repeat it here.
  12. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Sorry, I obviously overlooked this post: From that on it all didn't make any sense.

    But I still think that three posts in one hour with just a bit of information are too many posts. If you are investigating a matter, gather your informations and make one big post. That's better for everyone who reads this forum.

    Ok, then, I'm glad it worked!

    The Bandwidth Graph might only show TCP and UDP, but not IGMP. But I'm just guessing.

    Now to the QoS-config:

    It would make sense to give your TV a seperate class. Then your TV doesn't have to share it's bandwidth and hopefully you don't get missing frames on your TV. You can do this on QoS/Basic-Settings at the bottom.The problem here is that the default configuration doesn't have spare classes. Every class you see there has corresponding filters on the Classification page which need to be modified, too, if you use one seperate class for TV.

    At this point it might be nice to have a backup of your old config, so if you screw something up, you can go back easily. Go to Administratoin/Configuration and make a backup.
    Apart from that to take some screenshots of the current QoS-config (Basic Settings and Classification), or maybe even print it out, if this is easier.

    Name one higher class "TV" or something and then save. Maybe it's best if you just insert your TV class at Priority 2 or 3 and then shift all other classes down one number. Change the Inbound guaranteed rate (left value) to at least 300kbit and the right value to 400kbit (should be enough, but experiment). Outbound shouldn't matter. Since you shifted down all the other classes they now have different rate settings than before. Check with your screenshots and restore the old values.

    On the Classification page you should be able to make a new filter. On the bottom to the left there is a dropdown menu which should say "TCP/UDP". Change this to IGMP and change WWW to TV.
    Make sure that no other filters point to your new TV class and check whether all the other filters still point to the right classes. Use the screenshots to check and correct if neccessary.

    I hope I didn't forget something... Good luck!
  13. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    Thank you. Here is the thing, the TV connection that QOS shows is this

    Proto: UDP
    S Port: 65000
    D Port: 5000
    Class: Unclassified
    Bytes Out: 0
    Bytes In: 17.26 MB
    UL Rate: 0.0
    DL Rate: 319.1

    The QOS graph shows:
    P2P/Bulk 2570.00 313.72 99.94%

    So the QOS puts the TV in P2P class because it comes in as unclassified and the default class is P2P.

    The strange thing is that I'm unable to catch this stream with any rules. I tried many.
    I tried to filter by source Then I tried what you said by IGMP. I rebooted and still its as unclassified. Somehow no rule matches it! My local network is
  14. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    On QoS/Basic Settings: is the box "No Ingress QOS for UDP" ticked? If so, please untick it and save.
  15. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

  16. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Uhm, this is odd. It would be great if you could use wireshark to monitor what's going on, because I'm not sure whether everything ist being displayed correctly. But I think monitoring with wireshark might be a bit difficult.

    So maybe you just try something like this:
    and post the results.

    Did you try a udp port filter?

    Furthermore I'd like to advise you not give any class the full 100%. Responsiveness is better if you only give them 90%.
  17. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    I didn't touch anything except the minimum P2P changed from 5% to 30%. These are all official Toastman's settings and they work well. I just put the 2 Max Bandwidth to 90% of the real speed as it's described in this thread. All the 100% are Toastman's.
  18. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    I get this:
    udp 17 29 src= dst= sport=5000 dport=65000 packets=4317817 bytes=1559992556 [UNREPLIED] src= dst= sport=65000 dport=5000 packets=0 bytes=0 mark=0 use=1000
  19. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Just to be thorough I'm asking again: did you try a udp port filter with src port 5000 or dst port 65000? If you did I'm getting out of suggestions to solve your problem...

    Another thing you could do is to add a bunch of filters you think should work and then post a screenshot to let me check them. But that's more of a last resort option. I think you are capable of adding a filter...

    Please look at Status/Overview, under WAN: what's your connection type?
    The IP Address listed is the one from the cat /proc/net/ip_conntrack output? Just making sure you actually have a ppp0... or you could just enter ifconfig and see if you have it.

    Another tip I can give you is to use

    /etc/qos | less
    There you can monitor if your traffic really ends up where the GUI tells you it ends up. Keep in mind that this only makes sense if there is no other traffic on the line. If your default class has Priority 9 then it's called 1:80.

    There is one thing I don't understand: who tells your firewall to accept the TV stream? As I understand it this is one sided communication only. So if iptables never sees somebody asking for a packet (I know it's UDP, but then iptables would call it ASSURED, if there had been two sided communication) why doesn't it throw these packets away? Is UPnP doing this?
  20. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member




    By the way, I hope posting this pic is not a security risk for me with all the ips?
  21. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    Connection Type DHCP
    IP Address
    Subnet Mask
    MTU 1500

    About your questions, I dont know. I am not a network guy. All I know is that I enabled IGMPproxy in Advanced->Firewall
  22. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    Funny now I have noticed a major problem. Whenever my ADSL TV is on, my wireless doesn't work anymore. My iphone and ipad don't connect to the network and if they do, no data is able to transfer. If I turn off the TV, after few seconds they are able to connect and transfer data again! :(
  23. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

  24. Porter

    Porter LI Guru Member

    Is this problem limited to Apple devices? Can you use your wlan with a normal laptop? And it's only your wireless, your PC doesn't have a problem?
  25. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    No, my 2 PCs connected with wires to E2000 have no problems as you see in the QOS graph. I have tried only an iphone and ipad on wireless. I'm going to try different things including putting another firmware like shibby's. Maybe its the firmware.
  26. Monk E. Boy

    Monk E. Boy Network Guru Member

    Personally, if it were me, I would just plug the IPTV box into the modem, adjust QoS to be the values that you get with IPTV enabled, and ignore the fact that when you turn IPTV off you get 300Kb/s more. The phone shouldn't vary your bandwidth like that because the phone is "always on" with guaranteed bandwidth, since you can get an incoming phone call at any time.
  27. lefty

    lefty Networkin' Nut Member

    What we need here is etables, not QoS, and our goal here would be to block multicast traffic to the interfaces which doesn't need it.

    insmod ebtables
    insmod ebtable_filter
    insmod ebt_pkttype
    ebtables -A FORWARD -o "interface to block" --pkttype-type multicast -j DROP
    ebtables -A OUTPUT -o "interface to block" --pkttype-type multicast -j DROP
    Otherwise you won't be able to catch the multicast flood using QoS, probably have already tried and it not work, which is expected. You can also do this config with VLANs, but its alot more complex.
  28. Zodler

    Zodler Serious Server Member

    This has been very complicated and there are several different issues but I have finally managed to do it after a full month of trying and research. I have advanced even more than this:

    I found an elegant solution and that was to create a LAN1(br1) bridge and assign port 4 to it (and remove port 4 from LAN0 (br0)). Port 4 is where IPTV is connected. Now I enable IGMPproxy only on LAN1. This only allows multicast on my port 4 and IPTV.

    So that was just for allowing wireless to work when IPTV is on but it also allows to monitor better the iptv bandwidth. br1 graph is for IPTV and br0 graph for all the rest.

    Next comes to manage the QOS which is a completely different thing. As I said its impossible to catch it with a rule. So I let it fall into the default class. Now the thing that is new and I discovered recently was that the order of Classes matter! I thought only the percents matter but no!

    So I changed the default class. It was P2P and since it was a low priority class 9 it didn't help. I renamed the Remote class which is class 4 to IPTV and set default class to IPTV. IPTV is class 4 and FileXfer is 8 and P2P is 9 so IPTV gets priority and my TV doesn't break up with heavy FileXfer. And all my low values are still set as 5%, no need to change them. Everything works even better than before.
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