QOS - multiple AP's & DCHP - Confused

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by quade, May 11, 2012.

  1. quade

    quade Serious Server Member


    I belive i'm running a Toastmans build (tomato-K26USB-1.28.9054MIPSR2-beta-Ext)

    There are 3 houses
    I have the internet in my house and I have a cable going to house 2 and house 3
    At the moment, i've turned off DHCP and ethernet'd into the Lan port on their routers
    this means my router does all the IP assigning. (this all works fine btw)

    We have a 10MBit line
    What i want to do is limit the bandwidth ONLY when we are all using it, if not they get the full 10MBit

    first, can tomato handle this portioning when everyone is trying to use the bandwidth
    house 1 - 40% (me)
    house 2 - 50%
    house 3 - 10%

    And like wise, can it handle giving everyone 10mbit if no ones else is using the line

    If the answer is yes, I was planning to do it on an IP range, but wont this mess up the NAT etc if I have each router giving out a specific range ?
    Can i do it based on the Lan port they are plugged into (i.e. port 1 get 50%, port 2 get 10%, port 3,4 and wireless get everything else?)

    Thanks for any guidance
  2. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    You need to use QOS to do what you ask. QOS allows anyone to use whatever bandwidth is available unless something with a higher priority wishes to use it. If you set up QOS correctly there's no need to limit anyone's bandwidth.

    The build you are using isn't a toastman build and the QOS in it isn't so effective.
  3. occamsrazor

    occamsrazor Network Guru Member

    You probably know this already, but if your setup is that you have one main router in your house, and the two other houses are running solely as cabled access points, then those two routers/APs shouldn't be running anything like QoS or other bandwidth limiting function, all of that should run only on the main router.
  4. quade

    quade Serious Server Member

    Thanks both

    Toastman, thanks for clarifying these things
    Occamsrazor, yes i did know but thanks for the heads up, ideally the routers running as AP's will have as little running as possible

    What i'm confused about is HOW I know what devices to limit, as i have no way of knowing which devices are connecting to their AP's
    Yes I could use mac address's etc but this wont work as there are lots of visitors to these houses

    Any ideas how I do this bit?
    If i turn on DHCP on their AP's will it be a whole world of pain and hassle for me with Nat'ing etc?
  5. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    There have been several posts on this forum recently in which these and other questions have been asked, here is a basic guide not only for the OP but for any newcomers.

    Several newcomers to Tomato have been complaining that QOS and UPnP doesn't work, usually it's because they have misunderstood how to set up Tomato.

    Most people are on ADSL it seems, and thus require an external modem (which may be part of a "router" in its own right). Set this into bridge mode (google or ask for help if you need clarification) and connect it to the WAN port of your Tomato router. All login etc should now be handled by Tomato and the "modem" is just handling the ADSL connection. The "router" part of the modem and all it's other functions are no longer needed when the router is in bridged (modem) mode.

    OK now to the OP's problem:

    The issue of DHCP by the AP's isn't necessary. The main router is responsible for issuing IP's. You've got that set up already, so leave it alone. The router handles QOS and any traffic-shaping, it doesn't care whether a client connected via an AP or LAN, or where it is. Just view the AP as a dumb device to handle the radio connection and once it's working, ignore it. AP's are dumb devices and should have nothing else running on them. This is how the AP should be set up:


    You said you wished the users to be able to use all the bandwidth if it's free. And that of course is what QOS is for. You should not need to set any bandwidth limits on your clients if the QOS works correctly. For example, in this building where I live there are around 150 users, and people leave and new ones come all the time. It all takes care of itself and rarely needs to be fiddled with.If nobody else is using the system, a user can get the full bandwidth allocated by the QOS system.

    How well the QOS system works is up to the person who implements it. The default rules in the older Tomato versions are almost useless, and the QOS itself has been improved immensely since then.

    I suggest you read up on what QOS is for and how it works. Then flash the most recent version of my firmware for your router and erase nvram, setting up your login etc. from scratch. Then you will see a whole QOS system with many default rules appear as a default. Each rule is intended to be self-sufficient and thus serves as an example. Usually this default rule set will work reasonably well for you once you have set the maximum bandwidth limits for your particular connection. You can then adjust them to suit your own needs.

    This thread will help you:


    Ask for help on the forums when you need clarification. But your questions will usually have been answered somewhere in that thread or on the forum, so do use the search facilities first.
  6. quade

    quade Serious Server Member

    Thanks, I've read your post in the other thread already.

    Just to clarify, are you saying that QOS won't do what I need?

    I don't care about different ports/services getting priority, I just care about an equal share of bandwidth based on what they pay
    i.e. 10%, 40%, 50%

  7. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    You gave two conflicting requirements.

    a) Limiting bandwidth:
    house 1 - 40% (me)​
    house 2 - 50%​
    house 3 - 10%​

    This entails setting limits purely based on MAC or IP. Yes, delete the normal QOS rules and make up new ones defining the client by IP or MAC and apply your limits accordingly. Or you could use the Bandwidth Limiter with a range of IP's which will then apply the limit to the whole house.​

    But it will not then meet your second requirement:​

    b) can it handle giving everyone 10mbit if no ones else is using the line

    No, you need QOS to do this. Also, you have visitors to the houses, so it would be better if QOS handled this transparently.

    The point I'm making is that it really makes no sense to limit yourself or anyone else to use only a percentage of the bandwidth, it's just something you have to consider - limiting each person's speed or giving them a better service. But whichever way you want to do it, QOS can do the job. You just need to make suitable rules.
  8. quade

    quade Serious Server Member

    Sorry i meant limit bandwidth ONLY when everyone else is using it (i.e. if we are all trying to max out the line, then divide the bandwidth by percentages)
    If the answer to this is yes

    Then can I do it by ip range (i.e.
    If the answer to this is yes
    Then do i enable DHCP on the AP's ? and will I get any issues?

  9. Toastman

    Toastman Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Don't enable DHCP on the AP's, your main router issues the IP's. Just install a copy of the firmware and start experimenting. You will soon get a feel for it, and even with default settings you may be surprised what it will do for you.

    QOS can do what you ask if you really want to set limits. But it will use the limits you set all the time and will not allow those clients to use the bandwidth when nobody else is using it. That is not really how QOS is supposed to be used. As I described above, it should be self compensating whatever traffic is on the router. But you have to set it up to do that. There is an infinite number of ways to use QOS, and you have to learn how to do it.
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