"some services are being restarted" and WDS

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by fminuti, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. fminuti

    fminuti Addicted to LI Member

    First, sorry for my english.

    I have a problem with WDS.

    My configuration is Tomato 1.19 with Internet Connection and wireless mode setted to "Access Point + WDS".

    My second router is a TP-LINK TL-WR741ND with original firmware (is this router supported by tomato?) also configured for WDS.

    Both routers share same ssid / wi-fi password (wpa+aes) / channel / etc and MAC Addresses are properly configured.

    This configuration works, i can use the tp-link as access point and surf the internet.

    BUT! After some time the "connection" between the tp-link and tomato breaks and i don't know why.

    I've found that if I go in the tomato configuration page "basic" -> "network" and I click "save" (without changing anything), after the "some services are being restarted" has disappeared, magically the wds configuration starts again to work properly.

    So my question is: which services are restarted? If I can found out, i could put in Scheduler a script that pings my tp-link and (if not reachable) restarts the required services.

    I've already tried (without success) with

    nvram set wl_radio=0
    sleep 3
    nvram set wl_radio=1


    wl radio off
    sleep 3
    wl radio on

    Thank You in advance for your help.
  2. jed_99

    jed_99 LI Guru Member

    I'm certainly no guru, but if it were me, I'd do a 30/30/30 (google it if you're not sure) and then update to a new version of tomato. Then, setup things and see how it works after that.
  3. fminuti

    fminuti Addicted to LI Member

    Thank You for your answer.
    I've already tried with "Erase all data in NVRAM memory (thorough)", but never with a hardware reset (my tomato router isn't easy to physically reach...).

    I think I will try to upgrade to latest Tomato version, but if I could resolve my problem with the "service restart" trick, I will be much more happy!
  4. SgtPepperKSU

    SgtPepperKSU Network Guru Member

    Unfortunately, the Network->Basic page doesn't single out specific services to restart like some of the other pages. It actually signals to restart everything (well, it's actually sets a flag that indicates a SIGHUP should be sent to the init task, which is translated into a clean restart).

    If you want to emulate the same behavior in your script, you can do
    kill -s HUP 1
  5. wistlo

    wistlo LI Guru Member

    I have had the precisely the same problem develop after I upgraded a Linksys WRT54GL ( Tomato RAF Firmware v1.28.8525 _RAF ND VPN) to an ASUS RT12N (Tomato Firmware RAF1.28.9006 MIPSR2_RAF K26 USB VPN-NOCAT) .

    The remote WDS is a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 ( Tomato RAF Firmware v1.28.8525 _RAF ND VPN )

    I will try using the 'kill -s HUP 1' script as a cron and see if that keeps WDS alive.
  6. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    This is an old thread. What you describe is the one undeniable down side of WDS. It has to renegotiate all is internal connections and because one router is down during the reboot, services restarted, you lose the connections between routers. I have found that I only need to reboot the main router after all services are restarted and it finds all the slaves. It is indeed problematic. It would be great if WDS also carried its own code that once you re-start all services the routers on their own if wds=on would run another bit of code to reconnect to all routers in the WDS network.

    I'm thinking that could be done but WDS is not used amongst that many folks.

    Wireless Ethernet Bridge mode is more stable in that regard. However WDS offers more traffic management capabilities due to the way bridge mode works. The master router in bridge mode sees the slave routers and any clients on the slave routers pretty much as one entity, the slave bridged router. Where as WDS sees slave attached clients individually. If you put a MAC address in wireless filter in the master in bridge mode you can't connect to any router in your system. In WDS mode you can shape traffic flow/connections by using MAC filtering in the master router. You will connect via any of the wds slaves but won't connect to the master. Things like that for me make WDS more useful. I can control clients connecting to the closest router in the area in which they are using their laptops.

    However wireless bridge mode is more stable and just a tad quicker since you don't have the extra loop of data going amongst or between each WDS router.

    When I've helped people setup WDS my first and last piece of advice is "once it is up and running LEAVE IT ALONE".

    The nice thing with dual mode routers is you can use the 5 ghz channels as the WDS channels or wireless bridged channels and then do all sorts of stuff with the 2.4ghz channel like have separate SSID's, etc., and create all sorts of little networks within your bigger network. Add one of the VLAN firmwares and you could spend eternity with all the configuration options, guest accounts you could setup, etc.
  7. wistlo

    wistlo LI Guru Member

    Thanks for the reply, despite the thread's age. I posted here rather than open a new thread because the OP described my current situation exactly.

    With the Linksys & Buffalo, WDS did run indefinitely -- for weeks at a time. Now with the ASUS in place of the Linksys as the main router, I'm lucky to get 48 hours, and sometimes less. The ASUS performs perfectly in every other regard, and it greatly improves Siebel heavy client application performance across a VPN. (I suspect this is because the newer router cuts latency across those hops)

    For now I'll go with the kludgy services bounce, since the brief downtime is acceptable to all clients including corporate VPN.

    <Edit 23-Dec-2011>
    Some additional information for those trying an Asus/Buffalo/WRT54GL hybrid WDS network: I could not get WDS to work with the Buffalo with the ASUS in N mode. I have restricted the ASUS main router and the Buffalo slave to G-Only. This is OK since all but one device currently in service here are G.

    I have considered replacing the Buffalo with an ASUS, but I don't need the additional performance at the slave end and would rather save the money.
    </Edit 23-Dec-2011>
  8. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    Once up and running my WDS, while I don't do VPN mind you, never drops connections. Only when changing a setting, saving a setting, then "services are restarting" happens. You are getting services shutting down and restarting even though you aren't changing anything?

    Do you have to do WDS?
  9. mvsgeek

    mvsgeek LI Guru Member

    Old thread it may be, but as a relative newcomer to this forum, and trying to maintain a WDS-based rural network, it's highly relevant to me. I'm currently testing an ASUS RT-N16 as a replacement for my main router, which is a WRT54GL. I have 9 WDS slaves, each of which is defined to the main, but aren't defined among themselves - when I tried that, everything slowed to a crawl. Unfortunately as the number of users keeps increasing, I have to keep adding more slaves, hence the current count of 9.

    I experienced the same "connection drop" problem as the above posters when I flashed the main WRT54GL to Toastman 1.28-7625, so had to revert to vanilla Tomato 1.28. Slaves are all running 7625 with no issues. Now I'm concerned that replacing the WRT54GL with the ASUS will introduce an element of unreliability. Only one way to find out! FWIW the ASUS has been rock-solid in my test environment, but isn't that always the way it goes.

    I'd like to try Wireless Bridge Mode, but I'm not sure if I can mix it with WDS. Is it possible to run the main router in AP+WDS mode, some slaves in WDS+AP, and some in Ethernet Bridged? The slaves have to provide short-range wireless access, so I'm thinking I'll need an additional router for each WEB slave, configured as an AP, and connected via Cat5 to the WEB slave. Hoping for some help here from the gurus of this forum.

    I had to laugh at jmiddleton's "LEAVE IT ALONE" comment:) Totally concur, I've "fixed" my network several times when it wasn't broke!
  10. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "I have 9 WDS slaves, each of which is defined to the main, but aren't defined among themselves - when I tried that, everything slowed to a crawl. "

    Wow. I am always amazed at the level of complexity some of the systems folks have.

    Did you have Spanning Tree Protocol turned on? SPT is suppose to keep who is who in the zoo straight so you don't have unnecessary communication, slow to a crawl, between all the slaves.

    "Is it possible to run the main router in AP+WDS mode, some slaves in WDS+AP, and some in Ethernet Bridged?"

    Yes if you have dual band routers. That is one advantage of having dual band. You can do all sorts of different types of setups for each channels.

    You can do it without dual band. Just think of your wireless ethernet bridged router as a client. Just like your clients connect to a WDS+AP to the AP the slave bridged router connects to the AP of the WDS+AP.

    Practically, I'd rather do it with dual band router. You keep the N speeds for the router to router communication. Use the 2.4 ghz channels for clients.

    "connected via Cat5 to the WEB slave."

    They connect wirelessly.

    I'll find it and link you to it. There is a user on this forum that has quite the setup with bridge modes.

    Look here...

  11. mvsgeek

    mvsgeek LI Guru Member

    jmiddleton, thanks for the prompt response, and very clear explanation. I had already seen though's diagram, but hadn't studied it in detail, so I did... and my environment is fairly similar. I notice he (she?) has 2 cat5-connected routers in buildings 2 and 3, where wireless access is required - I ran into the same issue in testing, I couldn't connect wirelessly to the WEB slave, hence the need for a second (wired) AP slave.

    My network is in a rural residential sub-division, and it started out with only 3 routers, so WDS seemed like the way to go. Original setup was all Sveasoft, have since switched to Tomato/Toastman. Over time, as more houses have been built, the number of slaves has increased to support the increased need for broadband internet access. The nearest cable endpoint (location of main router) is about 0.5 miles away, everything from that point on is wireless.

    Currently all routers are WRT54GL's, so I'm restricted to 2.4 ghz, 802.11G (no N, and I don't permit B).

    I'm going to take the plunge soon and replace the main WRT54GL with the RT-N16. After that, phase 2 will be a staged migration from WDS to WEB, because performance is becoming an issue, and the expected Christmas deluge of tablets, smartphones etc is only going to make it worse :-( Lately I've been sleeping with Toastman's QoS tutorial under the pillow in the hope of absorbing it via osmosis :)

    FYI I enabled STP this morning, and everything ground to a standstill almost immediately. Ping times to google.com increased from ~50ms to 400+. I had a hard time accessing the main router in order to disable STP!

    Let me add my thanks to Toastman et al, this forum is the best:)
  12. jsmiddleton4

    jsmiddleton4 Network Guru Member

    "I enabled STP this morning, and everything ground to a standstill"


    I am very pleased with the Linksys E3000.

    "You can do it without dual band."

    Needed to add this. For single band routers when you go to wireless ethernet bridge mode you lose the AP access on those routers. The LAN ports work and what is connected to the LAN ports will connect to the master router.
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