Tomato on an ADSL router?

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by hymerman, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. hymerman

    hymerman LI Guru Member

    forgive me if this is a stupid question - I don't know an awful lot about networking. I've had a Linksys WRT54GL for a while, using Tomato firmware, and I'm very happy with it. I've just moved to a place where I can't get cable, so the internet now ADSL flavoured. I don't see any mention anywhere on the net that Tomato will work on any of the ADSL routers I've looked at - has anyone here done this successfully, and if so, with which makes/models?

    If it's not possible, then what setup would people recommend? Should I get an ADSL modem and plug that into another WRT54GL? (I need my existing router elsewhere, to act as a bridge to another part of the house) This will be a bit more expensive, but I value the excellent QoS and bandwidth monitoring support of Tomato highly.

    Any help would be muchly appreciated :)
  2. mstombs

    mstombs Network Guru Member

    No there are no adsl routers that are Tomato compatible. If your adsl is PPPOE you should be able to get a simple modem operating in full bridge mode leaving Tomato router in control. You can get a good speedtouch (Broadcom adsl chipset) for example without wireless or Ethernet switch . If your ISP uses PPPOA things are different as there are lots of poor half-bridge implementations..
  3. hymerman

    hymerman LI Guru Member

    Okay, so if it's PPPOE things are easy; get a modem and a router and all is honky dory. Would you ever recommend getting an ADSL router? Is that ever going to be a better set-up than an ADSL modem connected to just an ordinry router?

    Also, how do I find out whether my connection uses PPPOE or PPPOA?
  4. mstombs

    mstombs Network Guru Member

    You are actually hard-pushed to get a real ADSL modem - most are routers with full and half bridge modes. There must be many people who are happy with their integrated ADSL routers - which means the market for modems only is small! Take a look at the reports over on the Aus whirlpool forums - there aren't many highly recommended ADSL routers!

    How you connect is dependent on your ISP, some support both PPPOA and PPPOE - and PPPOE can come in a number of flavours. In UK BT used to unofficially support PPPOE (leading to many false reports that you can full bridge PPPOA!) but many LLU connections are now PPPOA only. You can have multiple virtual channels with PPPOE, for iptv etc - maybe the variety and lack of global standardization is a problem for ADSL?

    There aren't many options for 3rd party firmware on ADSL routers - here's a promising spec device though:-
  5. occamsrazor

    occamsrazor Network Guru Member

    I was in the exact same situation, and struggled with what to do for ages... on PPPoA but wanted a Linux router with Tomato. It's true that TRUE adsl modems are hard to find, but there is one and I've been using it with a Tomato-flashed Buffalo G54S router for about 3 months now and the combination has been rock-solid. It's by far the best router setup I've ever had.

    The true ADSL modem I'm talking about is the Draytek Vigor 100:

    Basically it converts the PPPoA into PPPoE/Ethernet, and then the Tomato router does the PPPoE authentication.

    Hope this helps,

  6. hymerman

    hymerman LI Guru Member

    Ah, that's getting a little out of my price range now!

    My ISP is Virgin (in the UK, formerly ntl), do any of you know what they support? Also, what would happen were I to buy some ordinary ADSL 'modem' (such as this one) and connect the ethernet out to a cable router such as this? Would it just not work? What would be the advantage of using a modem such as the Draytek Vigor 100?

    If it's going to just not work (without buying an expensive modem), I may as well just get an ADSL router and forget all about Tomato :(
  7. mstombs

    mstombs Network Guru Member

    Thanks for the info on Draytek Vigor 100 - that seems the closest to a cable modem, pricey - but if it works... what's the GUI like does it give you all the adsl details etc?

    Re: NTL / virgin ADSL - don't know - I think they just use BT - what modem do they supply? (USB speedtouch maybe).

    Re: Linksys AM300 - Linksys don't have a great record with adsl, there were some issues here with PPPOA half-bridge (NZ seems similar to UK in this need).

    maybe sorted with the latest firmware release (NB closed source using Ti AR7 chipset).

    I could now explain the strange netmasks - I also generate them with my own half bridge code.
  8. occamsrazor

    occamsrazor Network Guru Member

    mstombs - unable to send you screenshot am afraid, but you get a basic web interface that lets you change the VPI/LLC and other adsl parameters. But really, it's a set-once-and-forget device. Everything else is done by the router. Yeah it's a bit pricey, but if you want to go down the linux firmware route it's worth it. Am very happy with my setup. From what I've read it's way better than all the other so-called adsl modems which aren't really true adsl modems.... Cheers, Ben
  9. m078

    m078 LI Guru Member

    Well I'm using a Linksys ADSL2MUE modem in bridged mode and a WRT54GL with Tomato 1.11. Working perfectly.

    My ISP in UK is Plusnet (now owned by BT). The ISP setup instructions are for PPOA connection, but I have the WRT54GL set to PPOE and it works just fine.

    On the ADSL2MUE I have ADSL settings : Encapulation=Bridged mode only,VPI=0, VCI=38, Multiplexing=VC. All ISP specific info is set in the WRT54GL (eg userid& password) and thus I get bandwidth monitoring, QoS etc.

    Only issue I had was setting up the scripts to be able to access the UI of the ADSL2MUE (it will now be in the FAQ I expect).

    PS I bought the ADSL2MUE on EBay - very cheap.
  10. mstombs

    mstombs Network Guru Member

    @m078 - I didn't know Plusnet now owned by BT! An issue is that BT have been allowing PPPOE connections, others of us with unbundled LLU isps are pppoa only - maybe you will avoid this fate! But if you do I am typing this via my ADSL2MUE in pppoa half-bridge mode... but not using the same firmware as you!
  11. hymerman

    hymerman LI Guru Member

    Ok, getting out of my depth here!

    So I understand that if the connection is PPPOE things are honky dory and I can use a full bridge, which is apparently lovely, but if the connection is PPPOA I may have to use the dreaded half bridge, which is a right bastard. What I don't know is what this means for me; What are the implications for throughput, latency, reliability, control etc.? Or is it just one of these things that makes experts in the area feel uncomfortable?

    Thanks for the recommendation of the ADSL2MUE, I like it muchly. Mostly because it'll slot together nicely with the WRT54GL, though.
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