WDS questions

Discussion in 'Tomato Firmware' started by GoldieF550, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. GoldieF550

    GoldieF550 LI Guru Member

    I have connected two routers wirelessly (firmware version 1.28) in order to utilize a WDS (works perfectly). Before adding the second router I had enabled TCP Vegas on the primary router and found it really help with bandwidth issues. Now that I have added the second router should I also enable TCP Vegas on it? Will it make any difference at all?

    Prior to adding the second router I was able to use remote access and get to my router over the internet. After adding the second router and enabling remote access on a different port (8080) I am still able to access only the first router.

    Any tricks I should be aware of? I know could use SSH but our company blocks outgoing SSH connections.

    I hope I have provided enough information.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    TCP Vegas actually won't help a thing unless the program you're trying to "help" is actually _on the router itself_. Anything else is snake oil.

    You won't be able to remote to the second router without a port forward - from the first router's perspective, it's just another computer on the network.

  3. GoldieF550

    GoldieF550 LI Guru Member

    When you say "on the router itself" what do you mean?
  4. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member

    Services running on the router - a web server, FTP server, torrent client, what have you.

  5. myersw

    myersw Network Guru Member

    Cannot speak for Tomato and especially the Victek mod which I am running currently on my RT-N16. However, with DD-WRT BS build 14929 big which has TCP_Vegas on by default I did see positive things happen. As an example I was downloading a large file on one PC while the wife was doing email and watching youtube videos on another pc. She never had any pauses with the email or video. When I looked at the bandwidth usage graphs provided in DD-WRT the WAN link was maxed out. Down link is a 3Mbps ADSL link which normally tests out at 2.54Mbps. Up link is 512 normally 450 or so. I have used other firmware on this same router and did not see this kind of performance without doing QOS stuff. In the case given above I did not have any QOS settings on just the TCP_Vegas by default.
    I have turned TCP_Vegas on in the Victek build but have not had any situations like above yet to report on.
    Just my $.02
  6. rhester72

    rhester72 Network Guru Member


    I won't deny that _something_ had a positive effect, but I can 100% guarantee that it had nothing to do with Vegas.

    Vegas controls the size of the sliding TCP window on the communication *endpoints* - i.e. your PC and the web server server streaming video to you. Neither your router, nor any connecting point in the middle, nor the far side's router or switches will change the values in that TCP window, because they can't, by definition - otherwise TCP simply wouldn't work.

    I've read a great many "me too!" reports of "success" with Vegas - regrettably, not a single one of the claimants had any knowledge whatsoever of what Vegas is or does. I was the one who backported it to Tomato, and you have my word that it works as I described...there are countless whitepapers describing its operation in great detail if you don't believe me.

    With incredibly rare exception, it *is* snake oil, and Brainslayer knows that...but there's enough hype around it that it maintained interest in DD-WRT (and excused its poor QoS handling) for a long time, so there was no reason to ever tell people what the story really was.

    In fact, even if that were *not* the case, unless _both_ endpoints are using Vegas for congestion control, it can actually work out *worse* than CUBIC or other methods - again, extensive documentation on this phenomenon and how it can be avoided is available just one Google away. :)

    Sorry to disappoint.

  7. myersw

    myersw Network Guru Member

    Rodney, I have read the papers about TCP_Vegas as well. I was surprised when I saw what was happening and I cannot give a good reason for it. With different DD-WRT and Tomato builds I never saw this same performance without any QoS. In fact I have killed downloads because the wife was complaining about videos.
    I know it is not an end all to the QoS issue. I also prefer the Tomato solution/way of doing QoS over DD-WRT and Oleg, especially with Toastman's labeled solution.
    Right now this build by Victek seems to be running fine for me. I used his build on a WRT54GL and loved it, so was glad to see he has a new build that supports the RT-N16.
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