WRT54 in client mode - old question with a twitch ;-)

Discussion in 'Sveasoft Firmware' started by Swos, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Swos

    Swos Network Guru Member

    I want to connect to an AP that's running in infrastructure mode.
    So far I've been using a USB-device connected to my PC, but now I want to connect my other PCs to the AP as well - independent of PC#1. If possible, I would also like to protect my computers behind a router.

    I'm thinking about buying a WRT54g and (using Sveasoft firmware) use it as a client to connect to the AP. (I don't think bridging is a valid option because I can't control the remote AP (it has to run in infrastructure mode)).

    Now my question is:
    Will I be able to use (any) of the WRT54g's router abilities when it is in client mode?

    I'm guessing "NO" because of the following:
    I've read that the Satori firmware only allows one LAN connection, whereas the Alchemy allows several BUT NOT if they are in the same subnet!?! If they have to be in different subnets, does that mean that 3 PCs connected to the WRT54g (with Alchemy) can connect to the AP BUT NOT to each other???

    Or did I misunderstand the subnet part?
  2. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    Satori in client mode uses layer 2 bridging.
    allows 1 IP (can be a PC or another device such as a router).

    Alchemy uses the wireless interface as it WAN port. so it uses routing to get by the single IP problem. So it can connect multiple wired PCs, they will all be on their own subnet.

    With Alchemy, its subnet has to be different than the AP its attaching to. PCs on the Alchemy subnet will be able to see each other, PCs on the AP subnet can see the PCs on the Alchemy subnet if a static route is defined to the Alchemy subnet (and the firewall is disabled).

  3. Swos

    Swos Network Guru Member

    Ok thanks! But just to make sure...

    I would like my setup to look like this:
    Internet -> (DHCP)server -> AP ~~~ WRT54g(client mode) -> Several PCs
    (I have no control over the server or the AP which is running in infrastructure mode.)

    I want the WRT54g to act as a router/firewall so that other people connected to the AP can't connect to my PCs. All my PCs have to be able to connect to the Internet AND be able to connect to each other.

    Could this work?
    And will the WRT54g get its IP from the server and will my PCs get their IPs from the WRT54g? (Using Alchemy firmware!)

  4. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    Yes, you will need Alchemy to do this.

    If you leave the firewall enabled, nobody from the AP segment will be able to get to the WRT/client segment.

  5. Ian_m

    Ian_m Network Guru Member

    So does/can Alchemy in client mode make the WRT54G(S) act as an Ethernet bridge, with more than one PC, to the access point or do I still need a switch to connect multiple devices to the WRT54G(S) ?

    I wish to connect 2 IP devices (with static addressess of the range 192.168.0.n and 192.168.0.n+1) plugged into a WRT54GS to an AP of IP address
  6. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    yes you can connect many devices direct to the wrt itself with Alchemy in client mode. But the subnet of the Alchemy-client will have to be different than the AP it is connecting to.

  7. Ian_m

    Ian_m Network Guru Member

    If the subnet of the Alchemy client is different than the AP how can it connect and route to the AP ?

    Or does this mean, for instance if AP is, Alchemy client could be, but the multiple devices conncted to the WRT54 be of the form, 192.168,1.2 etc and all be able to connect to each other as well as to the AP ?
  8. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    Gateway / DHCP server LAN IP192.168.0.1
    WRT (alchemy client) WAN IP / LAN IP
    Clients wire to WRT (192.168.1.X)

    Note you will need a static route setup on your gateway to route traffic for to the WRT

  9. newuser

    newuser Network Guru Member

    thanks a lot, because I have the same problem.
    Simply I red somewhere that encryption couldn't be used if wrt is in client mode with alchemy firmware.

    I presently use the samadhi firmware with the limitation thatn only 1 client can be accessed at a time, and I wasn't able to do the same with a satori neighter with the alchemy on.
    But I understand that with alchemy the things are rather different, so I'll try again with your precious information
  10. Ian_m

    Ian_m Network Guru Member

    Is current version Alchemy stable enough to be used in current form in this mode (multiple IP wireless router) ? (and pay $20)

    Or should I/we wait until the first public release, when ever that is ?
  11. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    I have been using alchemy routed client mode for a while. Works fine. The release is coming soon, maybe real soon.

    I would subscribe anyway, as the support is really what you pay for, and you also have input on future releases. $20 is not a lot for the project, and they are making some real progress in development. Some people do not agree with the business model and think everything should be made available to everyone instantly. They release the code when they are confident of the stability. The dev team there has some real bright individuals.

    If all you want is the most stable version, then you probably should wait. The initial releases in beta have been quite buggy (lots of WRTs got bricked with the initial release of Alchemy, but they were recoverable), but the bugs get worked out over time and the code gets released.

    I have learned a LOT messing around with the source, trying different stuff. And that knowledge is priceless.

    The next version dubbed "Talisman" will support afterburner (GS mode) on plain G routers. Alchemy gets released right after Talisman becomes available in beta.

  12. Toxic

    Toxic Administrator Staff Member

    not ALL G routers afaik
  13. Ian_m

    Ian_m Network Guru Member

    Thanks grcore,

    I will unfortunately wait. I would love to get involved in all the development work and fiddling, but lack of free time and lack of time to recover an accidently "brickwalled" WRT54GS is my main problem at the moment.
  14. newuser

    newuser Network Guru Member

    unfortunately I was not able to operate in client mode with alchemy pre5.4 (neither older version of alchemy)
    I think I did exactly what is said here, but with no success.

    Maybe my static route ruler was not good, in spite of numerous tests

    I could see that I was connected to the AP as an RSSI was indicated in the status/wireless page, but no ping at all towards this AP or equipment behind it

    I really dont understand
  15. aspicer

    aspicer Network Guru Member

    * Interesting... I bumped into this little jewel today. I had heard that other users (probably Satori-Pre-3-whatever) had this working to put other boxes onto their local LAN and Internet. So I mistakenly downloaded the latest Alchemy and proceeded to a site to "Make it Happen (tm)". Well it didn't. The Linksys as a client did associate with a Cisco 1100 series AP and even pulled an IP Address from a DHCP Server on the WLAN/LAN from Gateway (in this case a Windows XP box sharing a WiFi Hotspot link). The Internet passes through the WRT, but I noticed that File Sharing did not.

    I think what's not being said here is that maybe NAT + Routing is being done, the way the WRT does with a Cable Modem (DHCP), DSL (PPPoE), or similar supported WAN connection. The "client mode" WRT is basically logging onto the Internet ... you even have to turn on DHCP as the Internet connection method.

    I bumped into NAT TRAVERSAL while looking for ways to solve the crisis. While they tore down the ceiling and began to run a 140' CAT5 cable I was able to get File Sharing to work for 1 computer (I think) by forwarding ports 135-139 and what was it 443? to an IP on the 192.168.1.x network on the WRT. What I wonder is if there is a wildcard or broader way to add all of 192.168.1.x to that same kind of Port Forwarding? If you could do 192.168.1.* or or (meaning that whole subnet) that could be a ticket.

    I'm kind of pissed at myself that I didn't see the lack of a return route back to idea for the layer 3 devices off of the AP network. But still that's kind of ugly. If someone replaces a Gateway device such as a PC or a Gateway Router then it's broken again.

    If we were really big boys we could probably run a routing protocol and have the WRT announce its routes to any gateway that would listen. The question is can you run OSPF or RIPv2 on Windows XP? And again it breaks when they replace that Windows XP box. And you've gotta keep imacculate documentation and don't go out of business on them.

    Or it seems like "iptables" in Linux (in the WRT) ought to be able to help out a lot here. I'm a bit rusty but in 2003 working for an ISP I made iptables firewall rules for stuff like this.


    Thanks GRCORE for your helpful and gracious posts on here!

  16. lio256

    lio256 Network Guru Member

    Does the Satori firmware that supports layer 2 bridging client mode allow an attached device such as an Xbox to have an IP address on the same subnet as the AP? This is essential for LAN gaming over wireless.

    I am desperate for a solution but am afraid my Linksys WRT54GS v1.1 will not be supported by the Satori firmware :-(
  17. grcore

    grcore Network Guru Member

    Someone probably will port Satori to that version at some point. There are dev-builds of Alchemy that do have the type of bridging you are asking about (wolf-lonewolf), but you have to use a static IP (dhcp will not forward).
  18. lio256

    lio256 Network Guru Member

    Do you know which one works on the WRT54GS v1.1? Wolf W42 Alchemy 6rc1 is the latest I could find but not sure if it is compatible with v1.1GS.

    Thanks for shining some light on this though.
  19. Disman_ca

    Disman_ca Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    No wolf-alchemy-60rc1w42 is not compatible. There has been changes to the router hardware that causes older firmware to "brick" the newer version routers. Alchemy 5a and higher is what you need.

    Please everyone keep in mind that having access to the sveasoft forum has its advantages. If you subscribed and read through the forum you would know all the issues related to hardware and which version supports what. You risk bricking your router if you google for sveasoft firmware and flash what you can find. Reading before doing is the best approach.

    This is not a paid commercial and I receive nothing for posting it. The intent is to educate and inform and help others in there quest to unlock the potential of the WRT54G/GS routers. If you found this offensive, tough, don't read it then. If you found it benificial, great. If you found this blurp amuzing, double great. :)
  20. jagboy

    jagboy Network Guru Member

    yeah but you can always use dd-wrt. i am pretty sure it works for all router revs. let me get back to you guys on this one
  21. Disman_ca

    Disman_ca Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    I'll save you the trip. It does.
  22. lio256

    lio256 Network Guru Member

    Disman, thanks for the warning, I also found that it was not compatible from looking at the changelog for the alchemy firmwares.

    Jagboy/Disman, does the DD-WRT support layer 2 bridging mode / or a bridging mode where the client connected to the bridge (WRT54GS) can be on the same subnet as the rest of the (router connected) network? This is the only way to connect two Xbox's, PS2s or other games machine that supports LAN games to see each other's games.
  23. Disman_ca

    Disman_ca Super Moderator Staff Member Member

    Yep, see shah's thread http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2564. Enjoy :)
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